Trans/clutch or transfer case failure?

[wankel1308]

So, I set out today on a drive in my 94 5 speed 4x4 and noticed a clunking noise. The noise sounds like it's coming from the transfer case or transmission. It's a rhythmic clunk that comes and goes with the clutch. Clutch out, clunk. Clutch in, clunk gets slower and stops. It's there while driving and when in 3rd gear it's really bad. Am I looking at a clutch/trans failure or a transfer case failure?

 

[Rick]

That's a rough one to diagnose online but you are on the right track as it could be either. If it's only 3rd gear I would say transmission but if it's in every gear it could be either.

 

[wankel1308]

It's present in all gears, comes and goes with clutch application. 3rd is definitely worst.... Seems like it's coming from the back of the tranny/transfer case area. It happens when it's sitting still, in neutral. If I push the pedal to the floor it slowly stops. The t-case shouldn't be spinning while it's stationary right? Admittedly, I should check the trans fluid...

 

[Rick]

If it's happening in neutral it's not the transfer case. Sounds like it could be a bad throwout bearing.
It is common for throwout bearings to make noise in neutral and then the noise goes away when the clutch pedal is depressed.

Checking the trans fluid may tell you it's empty, but filling it isn't going to fix what you are describing.

 

[~X~]

Have you gone under it to take a look?
Might not hurt to check the trans mount, u-joints, muffler hangers.....all bolts to trans & transfer case etc.

 

[wankel1308]

I'm putting the failure somewhere in the clutch/pressure plate. Gonna pull the transmission/transfer case tomorrow. Will update. In the meantime, any clutch recommendations?

 

[RangerX]

In the meantime, any clutch recommendations?

Yes, LUK, and a slave from only LUK or Ford.

 

[Gadget X]

Also, check the pilot bearing in the flywheel. Had similar symptoms in mine, and discovered that there was NO pilot bearing!! Was letting the input shaft "flop around".

 

[wankel1308]

Chunks of gear fell out with the transmission fluid... Now begins the search for a transmission...

 

[~X~]

Chunks of gear fell out with the transmission fluid... Now begins the search for a transmission

I guess this rules out the U-joint.

 

[wankel1308]

I guess this rules out the U-joint.

If only it had been a u-joint...

 

[410Fortune]

If you can find a M5OD from a later model truck, 98+ explorer and 01+ ranger you will be happy, those units are far upgraded over your current 94 m5od

Ebay is a good source
If you have yours rebuilt make sure you get the internal upgrades installed

LUK clutch ONLY
LUK master cyl and slave cyl ONLY

Now the tricky part, if you want a BETTER clutch you can upgrade to a 03 Ranger SOHC clutch
Your flywheel can be machined with 6 new holes to allow the much larger SOHC clutch to bolt up
Makes a WORLD of difference running the SOHC clutch in the older trucks behind the ohv.... much better pedal feel and clutch performance

 

[imp]

Chunks of gear fell out with the transmission fluid... Now begins the search for a transmission...

If it were mine, I would disassemble the transmission and carefully inspect all gear teeth. My guess would be a chipped or broken tooth or teeth on the cluster gear. If decided to fix, good opportunity to replace synchronizer blocking rings. Replacement with a used transmission gives little assurance of it's value, other than the usual "guaranteed to not leak or make noise" : YOU bear the labor if it's NFG.

 

[wankel1308]

If you can find a M5OD from a later model truck, 98+ explorer and 01+ ranger you will be happy, those units are far upgraded over your current 94 m5od

Ebay is a good source
If you have yours rebuilt make sure you get the internal upgrades installed

LUK clutch ONLY
LUK master cyl and slave cyl ONLY

Now the tricky part, if you want a BETTER clutch you can upgrade to a 03 Ranger SOHC clutch
Your flywheel can be machined with 6 new holes to allow the much larger SOHC clutch to bolt up
Makes a WORLD of difference running the SOHC clutch in the older trucks behind the ohv.... much better pedal feel and clutch performance

Excellent information! Do you have a good source for the rebuild kit? It seems like there's few options.... so I would assume that most rebuild kits are the upgraded HD parts? Is there a way that I can verify the 5/R 36 or 30 tooth without tearing the transmission apart?


In response to imp, the chunks were definitely gear teeth. The fluid was also very glittery... I was going to order a complete rebuild kit. Replace everything while I'm in there.

 

[410Fortune]

well I am no expert on that just pick up bits of info as I go over the years

Anytime I put a clutch in a 4.0 truck in the last 8 years or so I do the SOHC upgrade, it makes a huge difference so that is one mod I always do

As far as rebuilding with all the HD/R2 goodies we will have to leave that up to the guys who have gone down that road
That means SEARCH

So far I found this:

5spd Transmission rebuild....M5OD

okay... I made mention of this earlier, but I blew up the transmission on my Explorer a few weeks ago. I limped it home, and pushed it into the garage. I will be making a Photo Diary of the Rebuild, as I couldn't find one ANYWHERE on the `net..... But in the meantime, I thought I'd...

www.explorerforum.com

there are lots more build threads on google
I will ask my trans builder to share his knowledge on upgrading the old M5OD-r1

 

[Nadams01]

Also, check the pilot bearing in the flywheel. Had similar symptoms in mine, and discovered that there was NO pilot bearing!! Was letting the input shaft "flop around".

Dang that's pretty impressive! Definitely sounds like a throw out bearing. Just had a Honda come into my shop with the same symptoms. Definitely recommend doing slave and at least check the clutch as the trans has to be pulled out anyway. Technically the t case is always spinning on the chain, but when 4x4 is engaged the shift fork forced the chain on to the gear for 4x4. Please correct me if I am wrong. May be worth checking t case while it is off.

 

[Rick]

Now the tricky part, if you want a BETTER clutch you can upgrade to a 03 Ranger SOHC clutch
Your flywheel can be machined with 6 new holes to allow the much larger SOHC clutch to bolt up
Makes a WORLD of difference running the SOHC clutch in the older trucks behind the ohv.... much better pedal feel and clutch performance

If the flywheel needs replacing anyway, will the SOHC flywheel bolt up to the OHV crank?

 

[410Fortune]

No... unless your OHV is 98-2000

The OHV had a 6 bolt crank until 1998 when it switched to a 8 bolt crank (same as SOHC)
So the 90-97 OHV has 6 bolt crank and flywheel.
For those we simply pull the locating dowels from the flywheel, lay the new SOHC clutch on there with alignment tool, mark center punch, drill/tap thread 6 new clutch hold down bolts.

The clutch is like 10.5" driven disc vs the old 9.5" driven disc (or something like that) The 03+ SOHC clutch pressure plate has dual springs/upgrades that give the old ohv a much much better grip and clutch performance, pedal feel is far superior IMO
Can have your favorite machine shop do the work for you usually under $100.
With the 98-2000 OHV's you can just use the SOHC 8 bolt flywheel yes.

You still use the OHV throw-out bearing, slave and master cylinder

This is the clutch I always order

More Information for LUK 07167

www.rockauto.com

$150 not bad, few years ago these were like almost $300

 

[jr230]

No... unless your OHV is 98-2000

The OHV had a 6 bolt crank until 1998 when it switched to a 8 bolt crank (same as SOHC)
So the 90-97 OHV has 6 bolt crank and flywheel.
For those we simply pull the locating dowels from the flywheel, lay the new SOHC clutch on there with alignment tool, mark center punch, drill/tap thread 6 new clutch hold down bolts.

The clutch is like 10.5" driven disc vs the old 9.5" driven disc (or something like that) The 03+ SOHC clutch pressure plate has dual springs/upgrades that give the old ohv a much much better grip and clutch performance, pedal feel is far superior IMO
Can have your favorite machine shop do the work for you usually under $100.
With the 98-2000 OHV's you can just use the SOHC 8 bolt flywheel yes.

You still use the OHV throw-out bearing, slave and master cylinder

This is the clutch I always order

More Information for LUK 07167

www.rockauto.com

$150 not bad, few years ago these were like almost $300

hope you did not mean use existing used TO bearing and slave cyl. from the old trans/clutch only like 50 bucks for new parts SAME NUMBERS but a remove replace trans and transfer when the part fails in 20k. stupid move of ford/mazda to put slave and to bearing together inside

 

[fireftr]

Have you gone under it to take a look?
Might not hurt to check the trans mount, u-joints, muffler hangers.....all bolts to trans & transfer case etc.

You’re fishing with your ideas.
It’s a rotational issue.