Water pouring from 'front' of engine, water pump not bad?

[p38fln]

I feel like an idiot on this - Explorer was going through a gallon of water a day and finally started leaking so badly that the alternator started slipping. I assumed it was the water pump because I couldn't find any leaking hoses. It's at the dealer now for a water pump at something like 130,000 miles and they're telling me the pump looks like new and can't possibly cause an external leak anyway. What the heck else can possibly be leaking from the bottom of the engine on the 'front' (the passenger side) towards the bottom?

 

[Odrapnew]

First, a bad water pump can cause an external leak depending on where it's failing.
If you are losing (leaking externally) a gallon a day, should be pretty easy for dealer to find that leak.

What engine do you have?

 

[peterk9]

I feel like an idiot on this - Explorer was going through a gallon of water a day and finally started leaking so badly that the alternator started slipping. I assumed it was the water pump because I couldn't find any leaking hoses. It's at the dealer now for a water pump at something like 130,000 miles and they're telling me the pump looks like new and can't possibly cause an external leak anyway. What the heck else can possibly be leaking from the bottom of the engine on the 'front' (the passenger side) towards the bottom?

Have you checked the radiator and or the coolant reservoir for signs of a leak? Hopefully, it isn't just water but coolant that is leaking given where you reside. AS mentioned a bad water pump can leak externally through its weep hole. What does the oil on the dipstick look like? If it is a milky colour then it could very well be that the water pump leaking coolant into the engine.

Peter

 

[FruztalProjects]

If it's leaking on the passenger side of the vehicle (where the water pump is) it's likely a bad water pump. If it's not leaking, check radiator and hoses.

My water pump went at 130k miles.

 

[peterk9]

I sure hope they checked all that before starting to take a look at the water pump.

Peter

 

[p38fln]

First, a bad water pump can cause an external leak depending on where it's failing.
If you are losing (leaking externally) a gallon a day, should be pretty easy for dealer to find that leak.

What engine do you have?

3.5 Ti-VCT, the not turbo 3.5 liter. I was underneath the car when i was putting it on the Uhaul car hauler to tow it to the dealer, the leak is absolutely on the front of the engine. It's a massive leak, just driving the car onto the trailer had coolant running everywhere and it's absolutely leaking from somewhere on the front (passenger side) of the engine towards the bottom

I sure hope they checked all that before starting to take a look at the water pump.

Peter

Nope. They yanked the engine then called me to tell me that they didn't think the water pump was bad... well, at least it will have a new water pump anyway, not paying $1900 in labor to NOT have the part replaced lol. Also, with the guy telling me that it's physically impossible for the water pump to fail in a way that causes coolant to leak out of the engine, I'm not entirely sure he even looked at the water pump gaskets. The engine was basically out of coolant when they brought it into the shop.

 

[p38fln]

If it's leaking on the passenger side of the vehicle (where the water pump is) it's likely a bad water pump. If it's not leaking, check radiator and hoses.

My water pump went at 130k miles.

Massive leak on the passenger side. The leak was so bad the serpentine belt couldn't keep the alternator spinning, kind of like driving through a super deep mud puddle except there weren't any mud puddles.

 

[p38fln]

Have you checked the radiator and or the coolant reservoir for signs of a leak? Hopefully, it isn't just water but coolant that is leaking given where you reside. AS mentioned a bad water pump can leak externally through its weep hole. What does the oil on the dipstick look like? If it is a milky colour then it could very well be that the water pump leaking coolant into the engine.

Peter

The oil looks fine. Thats why the tech at the dealer says it can't be the water pump. He said it's utterly impossible for the water pump to fail without putting coolant into the antifreeze. I saw another person on this forum had this exact same thing happen and it was the water pump so I guess we'll find out when he puts the engine back in ...the tech swore up and down that there isn't a weep hole in this engine. Everyone here says there is a weep hole. I'm kind of concerned about the tech not knowing there's a weep hole in the engine he was just looking at 5 minutes before calling me.

 

[p38fln]

The guy is obviously an idiot. I paid $23 or whatever for a 3 day pass to Ford's service site and typed in my VIN# then clicked on Workshop and then Waterpump... It's right there on the freaking guide this moron should be using to replace the water pump.

"For 3.5L Ti-VCT , 3.7L Ti-VCT and 3.5L GTDI engines, the coolant pump is located under the engine front cover, mounted to the block. A weep hole is provided on the front left side of the engine behind the generator, adjacent to a 13.5 mm (0.531 in) cup plug. The cup plug and weep hole create a reservoir for normal coolant seepage and evaporation. Every coolant pump has some leakage past the dynamic mechanical seal. Dampness and crusting around the weep hole is acceptable and an expected result of normal engine operation. Address any coolant spray or leakage amounts large enough to puddle."

 

[Odrapnew]

So let me get this straight.

You have a coolant leak at front of engine (1 gallon per day) and brought it in for a diagnosis.

Dealer said water pump is bad so they tore into it.

They come back and say the pump looks fine and actually cannot leak externally anyway.

You now have a new water pump and still have the massive leak.

Is all that right?
If so, something smells fishy and it ain't the lutefisk.

 

[The D]

It sounds like you need to have this thing towed to a place that knows what they’re doing

 

[FruztalProjects]

Massive leak on the passenger side. The leak was so bad the serpentine belt couldn't keep the alternator spinning, kind of like driving through a super deep mud puddle except there weren't any mud puddles.

Sounds like a bad water pump to me. My leak wasn't to severe but was creating puddles in my driveway. As evident, this was from my water pump leaking. If the water pump is new and is leaking, the gasket for the pump is likely the culprit if the hoses and radiator aren't leaking.

 

[p38fln]

So let me get this straight.

You have a coolant leak at front of engine (1 gallon per day) and brought it in for a diagnosis.

Dealer said water pump is bad so they tore into it.

They come back and say the pump looks fine and actually cannot leak externally anyway.

You now have a new water pump and still have the massive leak.

Is all that right?
If so, something smells fishy and it ain't the lutefisk.

No, they're still working on it, there were some recalls that were outstanding (rear toe link and door trim) and I asked them to change the oil while it was in there. No word on if it's still leaking after the water pump replacement. I have a feeling if it was still leaking I'd be getting an "I told you so" phone call by now though lol.

 

[FruztalProjects]

No, they're still working on it, there were some recalls that were outstanding (rear toe link and door trim) and I asked them to change the oil while it was in there. No word on if it's still leaking after the water pump replacement. I have a feeling if it was still leaking I'd be getting an "I told you so" phone call by now though lol.

If it's the water pump still leaking. There are 3 probable causes that I can think of:

1. Water pump defective
2. Gasket wasn't seated correctly, thus causing a leak.
3. Whoever replaced it scraped the gasket with a metal tool, and damaged the area where the water pump sits at.

Other than those, if the water pump isn't leaking. Do what I've already said, check hoses, hose clamps, radiator, and reservoirs for leaks.

 

[peterk9]

3.5 Ti-VCT, the not turbo 3.5 liter. I was underneath the car when i was putting it on the Uhaul car hauler to tow it to the dealer, the leak is absolutely on the front of the engine. It's a massive leak, just driving the car onto the trailer had coolant running everywhere and it's absolutely leaking from somewhere on the front (passenger side) of the engine towards the bottom

Nope. They yanked the engine then called me to tell me that they didn't think the water pump was bad... well, at least it will have a new water pump anyway, not paying $1900 in labor to NOT have the part replaced lol. Also, with the guy telling me that it's physically impossible for the water pump to fail in a way that causes coolant to leak out of the engine, I'm not entirely sure he even looked at the water pump gaskets. The engine was basically out of coolant when they brought it into the shop.

The engine doesn't have to be taken out to replace the water pump.

Peter

 

[p38fln]

The engine doesn't have to be taken out to replace the water pump.

Peter

Absolutely true and the official Ford workshop guide says to do it with the engine in but they said they were removing the engine. Not sure how much time that added, if any, vs doing it with the engine in.

 

[p38fln]

Here's the answer -
The water pump was bad. The tech was an wrong. After he swapped the water pump and put the engine back together, there were no observed coolant leaks.

 

[Odrapnew]

Sucks that you had to get the runaround from the dealer, but good to hear that it got fixed.
You're also lucky that it was pouring externally vs internally (i.e. into the oil).

Now go out and enjoy the snow (coming from a fellow Minnesotan)

 

[ProjectSHO89]

Having just replaced my WP last week and having a pretty good look at how things are put together, I find it implausible that coolant would "pour out the front of the engine". Coolant can only go out the weep hole or into the oil pan, there are no other avenues.

Perhaps the description was poorly chosen and the coolant was coming out the weep hole after all instead of the "front of the engine". That's the only thing that makes any sense to me.

Dropping the engine/drivetrain out vs doing the repair in-vehicle is probably a wash as far as time is concerned. It's a really tight fit in there and I spent a LOT of time trying to figure out how to tackle individual bolts and parts and jacking up and lowering the engine and stretching to reach barely accessible stuff. If the engine was out, it would have been a real piece of cake to do and the actual replacement could have been done in less than half the time, IMHO.

 

[peterk9]

Here's the answer -
The water pump was bad. The tech was an wrong. After he swapped the water pump and put the engine back together, there were no observed coolant leaks.

Did they replace the timing chain and related components as well while they had it apart? Hopefully, there was no damage to the engine itself.
Having the oil changed was a good thing.

Peter