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Water pump failure leads to dead engine

Should Ford cover part of all of this repair out of loyalty?

  • Yes, a water pump failure at 95k should not destroy an engine

    Votes: 100 87.7%
  • No, and please quit whining about it

    Votes: 14 12.3%

  • Total voters
    114

pup5581

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So that engine is that much..i wonder how much the sport twin turbo is is say that blew on someone.

My 07 G35 blew a engine under warranty with no warning lights..kind of like OP...my oil pump failed

Engine was like 12K they said!

OP i would write to the GM or owner of the dealer you bought it from. That's what i did with my G when things weren't moving
 


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Turdle

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I know this is a war story, but here goes.

My engine experienced a severe coolant loss ( broken radiator) and failure. One thing to note, if coolant suddenly goes away, there is nothing for the coolant temperature sensor to monitor. The gauge might spike for second but I doubt you'd catch it by eye. In fact, when coolant goes away the gauges will read low then drop to the bottom. The only code stored in the pcm when this happened was the #1 cylinder misfire from a burned piston. There was no overheat code at all. Just throwing this out there.
 




tlbig10

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Sorry for the merged thread into this one. Everyone in my family that has heard this story is pretty upset about it and is simply trying to get some more traction on the issue. As you've all read, my posts have been very cordial and I appreciate the responses from everyone, both positive and negative.

The destruction of the engine all took place internally. There were zero visible signs/problems on the outside. When it was safe to open the radiator cap, the engine coolant was low. I dumped about 30oz of water in to see if it would fill up and it kept draining into the engine. I didn't want to dump more water in because we were stranded and we only had two more water bottles left. Again, nothing was draining onto the ground. Belts were all in tact.

Temperature gauge never changed color or lower/raised itself. My eyes were glued to it as safely as possible. My original post details what the display told me as I was pulling off the freeway.

As far as vehicle history goes, I did pull a Carfax on it before I bought it and it came back clean. The majority of routine maintenance were done at Sanderson Ford and Peoria Ford. I still have a copy of the Carfax report if the CSM wanted to review it, but I imagine they have access to more history than my report shows.

Sarah on the Ford Facebook page did get me the direct number to the CSM who reviewed the case. I'll be placing a call to her shortly to see if it helps.
 




blwnsmoke

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Sorry for the merged thread into this one. Everyone in my family that has heard this story is pretty upset about it and is simply trying to get some more traction on the issue. As you've all read, my posts have been very cordial and I appreciate the responses from everyone, both positive and negative.

The destruction of the engine all took place internally. There were zero visible signs/problems on the outside. When it was safe to open the radiator cap, the engine coolant was low. I dumped about 30oz of water in to see if it would fill up and it kept draining into the engine. I didn't want to dump more water in because we were stranded and we only had two more water bottles left. Again, nothing was draining onto the ground. Belts were all in tact.

Temperature gauge never changed color or lower/raised itself. My eyes were glued to it as safely as possible. My original post details what the display told me as I was pulling off the freeway.

As far as vehicle history goes, I did pull a Carfax on it before I bought it and it came back clean. The majority of routine maintenance were done at Sanderson Ford and Peoria Ford. I still have a copy of the Carfax report if the CSM wanted to review it, but I imagine they have access to more history than my report shows.

Sarah on the Ford Facebook page did get me the direct number to the CSM who reviewed the case. I'll be placing a call to her shortly to see if it helps.
Any comments on the engine I showed you? Whether it be an oversight or not the fact that an engine is $3,700 (that is 10% above cost, so about $3,3xx dealer cost) and not $7,200 should be throwing major red flags to you!!!!
 




blwnsmoke

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So that engine is that much..i wonder how much the sport twin turbo is is say that blew on someone.

My 07 G35 blew a engine under warranty with no warning lights..kind of like OP...my oil pump failed

Engine was like 12K they said!

OP i would write to the GM or owner of the dealer you bought it from. That's what i did with my G when things weren't moving
Getting off topic but $5,800 retail, $4,400 dealer cost.
 




pup5581

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Getting off topic but $5,800 retail, $4,400 dealer cost.
For the twin turbo? Not bad compared to that infiniti engine

Sorry off topic!
 




blwnsmoke

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Wasn't complaining.. just didnt want to stear the OPs thread in a different direction. Yes, not a bad price.
 




tlbig10

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I talked to the CSM who reviewed my case. She was not happy I was given her number!

We talked for about 10 minutes. I went over everything including the car's failure to warn of a failed water pump and that the engine was grenading and she told me there was nothing they could do. They wouldn't even consider covering part of the repair. :thumbdwn: Even reminding her of the paragraph on Page 8 allowing Ford to make exemptions in cases like this didn't sway her. Even bringing up the relative low cost to Ford of covering this and all the good PR it would bring them, on top of earning a customer for life wasn't helpful.

I'm going to try a few more things and I'll keep everyone updated.
 




tlbig10

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Another update. Someone said I should call AAA to have them tow the vehicle back home and put the engine in myself or have a mechanic do it. While I've helped swap out an engine in a Focus (also replaced the head on another one), since so few have actually done this with detailed pictures and instructions, I'm not sure I want to take it on.

AAA limits their towing to 100 miles. I'd need 300 to get here. I called my local Ford dealer to see what it would cost them for an engine swap, and it's about the same price. If I had my mechanic do it, I might save $1k on labor, but I wouldn't have a warranty. So in the end I'm having Fiesta do the work. There is a 3 year unlimited mile warranty with the new engine, so I do have that if this happened again.

I might still go with a local news channel to see if they can put pressure on Ford, but I think at this point I'm looking at $7300 out of pocket.

I'll let everyone draw whatever conclusions they want from this little endeavor. Needless to say I'm disappointed with Ford.
 




Mdg4486

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I talked to the CSM who reviewed my case. She was not happy I was given her number!

We talked for about 10 minutes. I went over everything including the car's failure to warn of a failed water pump and that the engine was grenading and she told me there was nothing they could do. They wouldn't even consider covering part of the repair. :thumbdwn: Even reminding her of the paragraph on Page 8 allowing Ford to make exemptions in cases like this didn't sway her. Even bringing up the relative low cost to Ford of covering this and all the good PR it would bring them, on top of earning a customer for life wasn't helpful.

I'm going to try a few more things and I'll keep everyone updated.
What is the number?? Haha kidding of course, but I'd love to see the look on her face when 20 people call her to ask her why Ford isn't taking care of a car barely out of warranty..
 




pup5581

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What is the number?? Haha kidding of course, but I'd love to see the look on her face when 20 people call her to ask her why Ford isn't taking care of a car barely out of warranty..
Would be pretty funny
 




Lethaldose50

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What is the number?? Haha kidding of course, but I'd love to see the look on her face when 20 people call her to ask her why Ford isn't taking care of a car barely out of warranty..
Everyone can save their time. The answer is this....wait for it....Because it's out of warranty!!! What does it matter if it's 1000 or 50,000 miles? The terms of the warranty are what they are. While I can sympathize with the situation OP is in, I just don't get all of this. It's an out of warranty used vehicle. If someone wants additional coverage, they should try to get it placed in the certified pre-owned program as part of the purchase negotiations. When the back up camera on my wife's edge went out 3000 miles out of warranty, I was upset but never even considered asking about warranty coverage and that was on a vehicle I purchased new.

Carfax may be a good tool but it can't tell you everything about what has been done to a used vehicle before you buy it. This is not a common failure on these engines. It's just as easy to believe that it may have something to do with the previous owner. If Ford covers this engine then they should have covered my camera and who knows how many other out of warranty repairs others here may have. Who pays for all of it in the end? The answer is that we all do. Ford is in business to make money and at the end of the day the cost of all these repairs would get passed on to the consumer.

I still empathize with the situation, I just think that the approach of coming here to drum up support and threatening to involve the media to pressure Ford is the wrong one.
 




pup5581

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Everyone can save their time. The answer is this....wait for it....Because it's out of warranty!!! What does it matter if it's 1000 or 50,000 miles? The terms of the warranty are what they are. While I can sympathize with the situation OP is in, I just don't get all of this. It's an out of warranty used vehicle. If someone wants additional coverage, they should try to get it placed in the certified pre-owned program as part of the purchase negotiations. When the back up camera on my wife's edge went out 3000 miles out of warranty, I was upset but never even considered asking about warranty coverage and that was on a vehicle I purchased new.

Carfax may be a good tool but it can't tell you everything about what has been done to a used vehicle before you buy it. This is not a common failure on these engines. It's just as easy to believe that it may have something to do with the previous owner. If Ford covers this engine then they should have covered my camera and who knows how many other out of warranty repairs others here may have. Who pays for all of it in the end? The answer is that we all do. Ford is in business to make money and at the end of the day the cost of all these repairs would get passed on to the consumer.

I still empathize with the situation, I just think that the approach of coming here to drum up support and threatening to involve the media to pressure Ford is the wrong one.

I sort of agree...once you are even 5 mil out of that warranty...you are really on your own and should expect to be on your own..but that's just me

I have seen dealers honor something that was say 100 or 200 miles out of warranty..but they have no obligation to be nice if something does happen. They are in it to make $$ and not lose it. That's business and in this case it sucks for the OP.
 




markls8

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Agree, LD50. Not only is it out of warranty, but it was bought as a used vehicle, not new. BIG difference. Not that the outcome would necessarily be different, but with a new vehicle you have spent a bigger chunk of change which gives more wiggle room, and you also know that the vehicle has not been abused by anyone. You don't know that about this vehicle. You pay less money for a used vehicle, in exchange for, among other things, increased risk.

While I am certainly sympathetic, I think it's important to consider that it might be like cutting your nose off to spite your face if you move away from Ford (whom you evidently otherwise are quite satisfied with) and to other brands with the expectation that they would have acted any differently in this situation.

I know it's a big (and unfortunate) hit in the wallet, but there are plenty of good things (mentioned) about having a brand new engine installed.
 




peterk9

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If I'm not mistaken, new vehicle prices have a certain built in cost for covering warranty repairs.

Peter
 




blwnsmoke

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I talked to the CSM who reviewed my case. She was not happy I was given her number!

We talked for about 10 minutes. I went over everything including the car's failure to warn of a failed water pump and that the engine was grenading and she told me there was nothing they could do. They wouldn't even consider covering part of the repair. :thumbdwn: Even reminding her of the paragraph on Page 8 allowing Ford to make exemptions in cases like this didn't sway her. Even bringing up the relative low cost to Ford of covering this and all the good PR it would bring them, on top of earning a customer for life wasn't helpful.

I'm going to try a few more things and I'll keep everyone updated.
Clearly you do not want to listen so what you pay is what you pay. I gave you a link to a Ford dealer who will sell the engine to you for $3,700. It does not take $3,500 in labor to put it in.

You still get the warranty even if Ford does not put it in.

Dont really understand why you come here for help, ignore the help and then say you are going with the dealer who is ripping you off.

Sad to say at this point you get what you deserve.
 




tlbig10

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My main gripe is the fact that the vehicle failed to recognize a major problem while it was happening. Had the water pump failed and the vehicle temperature suddenly rose or a check engine light came on, it would have given me time to pull over and turn the engine off before catastrophic damage was done. I'd be looking at replacing a water pump (which is a 13 hour job) to the tune of $2k and I promise I wouldn't be here asking for ideas if this was the case. Even if Ford said "tough luck you're out of warranty" I'd accept this without question.

What if I was under the 60k warranty and the same situation happened again? No warning of water pump failure which lead to a dead engine? How much do you want to bet Ford would come back and say I was negligent for not pulling over in time and therefore deny the claim even if I say there was no warning?

blwnsmoke - I wish I could go back in time and not take it to a dealer had I known the engine was toast. You forget the tear down cost of the investigation ($2300 - yes that's outrageous but what can you do at this point?), 600 mile round trip for getting the vehicle back to Arizona ($500 for Uhaul trailer rental plus gas not to mention time and wear on a truck that can tow something that heavy), shipping of engine ($200) and the extra $1000 up front before they get their core back. That right there puts me at $7800 before a mechanic touches it.

I really don't think Fiesta holds any blame. They were the closest dealer at the time and the $7300 includes the engine and the tear down.
 




markls8

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Off topic, but I'd like to hear the technical etiology of what happened, if they give you one. Particularly the order in which they think things happened, and which was the original failure that led to the rest. Some engines (aluminum block) are quite capable of running for several hundred kilometers without any coolant (in safe, or limp home, mode) without harm, I had one. I don't know if your engine has that ability, but the technology to do that has been around for at least 15 years. Most people are unaware of it because it is rarely put into action, but it's an ingenious technology. (But maybe they stopped incorporating it into engine design for that reason?)

The rattle you heard (the "death"rattle) of course was pinging (detonation) from engine overheating, which itself blows head gaskets, etc. But they think the gasket failed first, and that led to everything else. The coolant did burn off at some point, but if the rate were low enough you wouldn't see (or even notice) the white exhaust.

There are some mysterious things here, I agree.
 




dco43054

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Off topic, but I'd like to hear the technical etiology of what happened, if they give you one. Particularly the order in which they think things happened, and which was the original failure that led to the rest. Some engines (aluminum block) are quite capable of running for several hundred kilometers without any coolant (in safe, or limp home, mode) without harm, I had one. I don't know if your engine has that ability, but the technology to do that has been around for at least 15 years. Most people are unaware of it because it is rarely put into action, but it's an ingenious technology. (But maybe they stopped incorporating it into engine design for that reason?)

The rattle you heard (the "death"rattle) of course was pinging (detonation) from engine overheating, which itself blows head gaskets, etc. But they think the gasket failed first, and that led to everything else. The coolant did burn off at some point, but if the rate were low enough you wouldn't see (or even notice) the white exhaust.

There are some mysterious things here, I agree.
Not off topic at all. The question here is "why did the engine fail?" No disrespect to the OP, but something just doesn't add up. If you think you have a valid claim, I'd have an independent expert look at the engine and provide an opinion, not post pics to the internet and think it will shame Ford into doing something.
 


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blanchard7684

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How did a water pump take out the engine? And why did you get a CEL on something completely unrelated to the water pump? Something doesn't add up right.
the 3.5 has an 'internal' water pump. It is driven by the timing chain and is under the timing cover. when that leaks, it leaks into the engine oil system directly. it obviously doesn't take much to ruin the lube oil properties with water and glycol mix.

from here the oil pump picks up the contaminated lube oil and pumps through the engine...crankshaft mains, connecting rods, and cam shaft journals are all almost equally and identically affected. The check engine code can come from misfires or an out of sequence cam timing. This is due to the cam shaft phasers not working properly due to loss of oil pressure (because the engine bearings are coming apart).

I hope this helps clarify the technical basis.

This sucks big time for the OP. this is a very rare failure. Being a former dealership tech myself, I am super shocked they aren't working with you on this. I mean c'mon here they can't pay for at least a portion of this?

lesson learned for me: WATCH THAT COOLANT COOLANT LEVEL!

I'm spoiled to driving ford modular V-8s. The external water pump is a 30 minute job and easy to see a leak on.
 
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