Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[new to ford]

the 3.5 has an 'internal' water pump. It is driven by the timing chain and is under the timing cover. when that leaks, it leaks into the engine oil system directly. it obviously doesn't take much to ruin the lube oil properties with water and glycol mix.

from here the oil pump picks up the contaminated lube oil and pumps through the engine...crankshaft mains, connecting rods, and cam shaft journals are all almost equally and identically affected. The check engine code can come from misfires or an out of sequence cam timing. This is due to the cam shaft phasers not working properly due to loss of oil pressure (because the engine bearings are coming apart).

I hope this helps clarify the technical basis.

This sucks big time for the OP. this is a very rare failure. Being a former dealership tech myself, I am super shocked they aren't working with you on this. I mean c'mon here they can't pay for at least a portion of this?

lesson learned for me: WATCH THAT COOLANT COOLANT LEVEL!

I'm spoiled to driving ford modular V-8s. The external water pump is a 30 minute job and easy to see a leak on.

Best piece of useful information for us owners, need to keep an eye on reservoir coolant looses...

 

[Toucan]

Clearly you do not want to listen so what you pay is what you pay. I gave you a link to a Ford dealer who will sell the engine to you for $3,700. It does not take $3,500 in labor to put it in.

You still get the warranty even if Ford does not put it in.

Dont really understand why you come here for help, ignore the help and then say you are going with the dealer who is ripping you off.

Sad to say at this point you get what you deserve.

The charge for taking out and putting back engine here In Belize was $100.00. The rest of charges was for actual repairs. My mech does have sophisticated equipment to do his work. I honestly cannot see what would shoot it up all the way to $3,700.00 there in the USA. Even after i consider personnel insurance, job site insurances etc. - if they have that.

 

[Toucan]

Best piece of useful information for us owners, need to keep an eye on reservoir coolant looses...

IMHO, do the "walk around" every day before you leave home. Better to be safe than sorry. That is how I detected the "annoying" coolant leak that happened only when engine was cool.

 

[tlbig10]

the 3.5 has an 'internal' water pump. It is driven by the timing chain and is under the timing cover. when that leaks, it leaks into the engine oil system directly. it obviously doesn't take much to ruin the lube oil properties with water and glycol mix.

from here the oil pump picks up the contaminated lube oil and pumps through the engine...crankshaft mains, connecting rods, and cam shaft journals are all almost equally and identically affected. The check engine code can come from misfires or an out of sequence cam timing. This is due to the cam shaft phasers not working properly due to loss of oil pressure (because the engine bearings are coming apart).

I hope this helps clarify the technical basis.

This sucks big time for the OP. this is a very rare failure. Being a former dealership tech myself, I am super shocked they aren't working with you on this. I mean c'mon here they can't pay for at least a portion of this?

lesson learned for me: WATCH THAT COOLANT COOLANT LEVEL!

I'm spoiled to driving ford modular V-8s. The external water pump is a 30 minute job and easy to see a leak on.

Excellent explanation!

You guys are still missing the point. There will be no evidence of a water pump leak/failure if you did a daily visual inspection. When it goes, coolant immediately enters the oil system. How much time do you get before you've hosed your engine? How will you know when it even happens? The answer is you won't. When a sensor finally does see a problem like low oil pressure or crank position, it's already too late.

 

[tlbig10]

I started widening my search for this issue since Ford puts this engine in a number of vehicles and came across this thread:

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/11720-coolant-leak/

In there a guy suggested going to this site and talking to a lawyer about a class action lawsuit: http://www.consumer-action.org/index.php/alerts/articles/have_you_purchased_these_products

Ford Water Pumps. Owners/lessees and certain prior owners/lessees of Ford vehicles containing a Duratec 35 engine should be aware of a potential safety defect relating to the water pump in the cooling system. If the water pump fails, the engine can overheat. Often, this occurs without warning. Significant overheating can cause engine failure, with engine replacement costing thousands of dollars. Also, it can cost thousands of dollars to replace just the water pump because it is located in the engine’s interior. This problem has the potential to affect all model year 2007-2014 Ford vehicles containing a Duratec 35 (3.5 liter) engine, including: 2007-2014 Ford Edge, 2007-2010 Lincoln MKX, 2007-2014 Lincoln MKZ, 2008-2014 Ford Taurus, 2008-2009 Ford Taurus X, 2008-2009 Mercury Sable, 2009-2004 Ford Flex, 2012-2012 Ford Fusion Sport, and 2011-2014 Ford Explorer.

I have a feeling this will be happening to more of us eventually. Hopefully this thread becomes a resource for the issue.

 

[Turdle]

If the coolant suddenly goes away like stated above, your first sign of trouble will be the pre detonation occuring while cylinders are burning up. It will be too late by then. No gauge will help.

 

[blanchard7684]

Excellent explanation!

You guys are still missing the point. There will be no evidence of a water pump leak/failure if you did a daily visual inspection.

May not be feasible on a daily basis...but you can pull the dipstick and check the oil fill cap. Trace amounts of water will show up as a milky looking substance.

This failure likely doesn't happen all at once in some catastrophic failure.

It probably seeps like most water pumps; and then the water content in the oil is too much for the rotating assembly to handle and THEN you get the cascade of engine failure.

 

[4rd4life]

What car insurance do you have? I have heard of some people going through Geico and the like, for repairs.

 

[pup5581]

My main gripe is the fact that the vehicle failed to recognize a major problem while it was happening.

Ya that would get me upset as well. It happened to my G when the engine blew. no warning sign at all the oil pump failed. Dealer told me that they have no idea why i didn't get a warning light.

 

[blwnsmoke]

the 3.5 has an 'internal' water pump. It is driven by the timing chain and is under the timing cover. when that leaks, it leaks into the engine oil system directly. it obviously doesn't take much to ruin the lube oil properties with water and glycol mix.

from here the oil pump picks up the contaminated lube oil and pumps through the engine...crankshaft mains, connecting rods, and cam shaft journals are all almost equally and identically affected. The check engine code can come from misfires or an out of sequence cam timing. This is due to the cam shaft phasers not working properly due to loss of oil pressure (because the engine bearings are coming apart).

I hope this helps clarify the technical basis.

This sucks big time for the OP. this is a very rare failure. Being a former dealership tech myself, I am super shocked they aren't working with you on this. I mean c'mon here they can't pay for at least a portion of this?

lesson learned for me: WATCH THAT COOLANT COOLANT LEVEL!

I'm spoiled to driving ford modular V-8s. The external water pump is a 30 minute job and easy to see a leak on.

Thank you for this information!! Fantastic post!!

 

[tlbig10]

What car insurance do you have? I have heard of some people going through Geico and the like, for repairs.

My local dealer suggested that early on and Farmers told me to take a hike. It's a good piece of info to have if someone else comes across this.

 

[Brad C]

What car insurance do you have? I have heard of some people going through Geico and the like, for repairs.

Speaking as someone with over 34 years in the insurance business, there is no company that will pay for a mechanical breakdown on a standard auto policy. If there were some type of vandalism, then yes, a policy could pay for that. A simple mechanical breakdown is never covered by an auto insurance policy.

 

[blanchard7684]

HHAHAH this thread got me paranoid...went and checked the oil and the oil filler cap even though I changed the oil about two weeks ago.

I bought my 14 knowing full well there was an internal water pump and what the failure mode entailed.

 

[BMan5150]

Speaking as someone with over 34 years in the insurance business, there is no company that will pay for a mechanical breakdown on a standard auto policy. If there were some type of vandalism, then yes, a policy could pay for that. A simple mechanical breakdown is never covered by an auto insurance policy.

Ditto! This is not what auto insurance is for, lol! We certainly do work in a very misunderstood, much maligned industry and much of the latter is deserved. But not in this case, but I digress.

 

[182RG]

Geico has an optional mechanical breakdown policy.

https://www.geico.com/getaquote/auto/mechanical-breakdown-insurance/

 

[Brad C]

Geico has an optional mechanical breakdown policy.

https://www.geico.com/getaquote/auto/mechanical-breakdown-insurance/

Oh, there are companies that will ENDORSE the policy to cover mechanical breakdown (at an additional premium) but it is never standard under the Other than Collision or Collision coverage. Similar to buying gap coverage from your auto insurance company and not the dealer. Usually much cheaper to add it, if possible, to your current auto insurance policy.

 

[dco43054]

the 3.5 has an 'internal' water pump. It is driven by the timing chain and is under the timing cover. when that leaks, it leaks into the engine oil system directly. it obviously doesn't take much to ruin the lube oil properties with water and glycol mix.

from here the oil pump picks up the contaminated lube oil and pumps through the engine...crankshaft mains, connecting rods, and cam shaft journals are all almost equally and identically affected. The check engine code can come from misfires or an out of sequence cam timing. This is due to the cam shaft phasers not working properly due to loss of oil pressure (because the engine bearings are coming apart).

I hope this helps clarify the technical basis.

Thanks for this. It makes some sense of how a "water pump failure" could take out an engine. From the initial description, it seemed to be a cooling failure, which made no sense as the lack of circulation would likely trigger a temperature warning. From your description, it is a contamination of the lubricating oil with engine coolant that causes lubrication failure.

I think this is the first time I've ever seen this problem reported here on the latest Explorers.

 

[Fla_15_XLT]

Everyone can save their time. The answer is this....wait for it....Because it's out of warranty!!! What does it matter if it's 1000 or 50,000 miles? The terms of the warranty are what they are. While I can sympathize with the situation OP is in, I just don't get all of this. It's an out of warranty used vehicle. If someone wants additional coverage, they should try to get it placed in the certified pre-owned program as part of the purchase negotiations. When the back up camera on my wife's edge went out 3000 miles out of warranty, I was upset but never even considered asking about warranty coverage and that was on a vehicle I purchased new.

Carfax may be a good tool but it can't tell you everything about what has been done to a used vehicle before you buy it. This is not a common failure on these engines. It's just as easy to believe that it may have something to do with the previous owner. If Ford covers this engine then they should have covered my camera and who knows how many other out of warranty repairs others here may have. Who pays for all of it in the end? The answer is that we all do. Ford is in business to make money and at the end of the day the cost of all these repairs would get passed on to the consumer.

I still empathize with the situation, I just think that the approach of coming here to drum up support and threatening to involve the media to pressure Ford is the wrong one.

I would consider that he would have a strong argument - to be explored/validated by a qualified / skilled lawyer specializing in class action - that the part failure was likely well WITHIN the warranty period - but was not discovered until shortly after. The particular mode of failure is hidden, and would not be detected until the oil was degraded with contamination. By which time, the engine is toast.

To me, this sort of engine design demands sensors that will alarm at the presence of coolant in the oil, because pump seal failure would cause catastrophic engine failure.

 

[4rd4life]

Speaking as someone with over 34 years in the insurance business, there is no company that will pay for a mechanical breakdown on a standard auto policy. If there were some type of vandalism, then yes, a policy could pay for that. A simple mechanical breakdown is never covered by an auto insurance policy.

well idk if its standard or not. but i know that geico is one that at least offers auto repairs. ive gotten 2 through my shop in the last few months.

 

[dco43054]

well idk if its standard or not. but i know that geico is one that at least offers auto repairs. ive gotten 2 through my shop in the last few months.

Are you referring to this? https://www.geico.com/getaquote/auto/mechanical-breakdown-insurance/

It's a separate policy, or policy addon, that is similar to an extended warranty