What oil to use

[1997XLTRollover]

Hey guys, just wanted to get some insight on this because my 96 5.0 has me scratching my head a bit. It's a stock rebuilt 306 built by yours truly and has about 2k miles on it. Only mods are 25% stiffer than stock valve springs and torque monster headers. Now I never have an issue when outside temps are warmer, but when it gets down around freezing, I get a really bad what sounds like valve train tap (maybe a collapsed lifter) when I rev over 3k rpm.

Basically here's what happens. Start truck, wait until engine temp hits 100-130 degrees, put in drive and take off. Engine will idle and run smooth and quiet up until 3k rpm in first gear when it then emits a horrible tapping noise. Shifts to second and it goes away; the noise never happens again until the next cold start.

I'm running Castrol 5w30 and am wondering if I should go to a 5w20 since it's getting colder out and since my entire engine is fresh. Maybe the thicker oil is too much since all the tolerances are back to good factory spec.

Thoughts?

 

[1997XLTRollover]

No one? I may just try the 5-20 and see what happens but I want to be sure I won't mess the truck up running such a thin oil.

On a side note does anyone add any zinc to their oil? Or is it really unnecessary because our engines are full roller?

 

[1997XLTRollover]

I'm going to bump this up again. Does anyone add any zink to their oil too? I'm thinking these engines probably need at least 1000ppm and no off the shelf conventional oil these days has that.

 

[drdoom]

I like the Motorcraft 5 20 synthetic blend.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

I'm losing or burning 1 qt every 3k miles. My front main leaks a little bit never leaves a spot on my driveway. I think when I did the rebuild the idiot machine shop was wrong about my valve guides being good. I have a feeling they're worn.

 

[J_C]

I'd be topping off lost oil with 0W20 and see if that helps, then if it does, switch to 5W20 on the next oil change. Unfortunately that should only make the oil loss rate worse.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with too low of a Zink content in the newer oils too.

 

[J_C]

^ A zinc additive is a good idea to break in a new or rebuilt engine, but use it too long and it can start to foul up a catalytic converter. I doubt it's going to resolve any other engine problems though, so i would say use a zinc additive because it's rebuilt, not because of the symptoms you're experiencing.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

^ A zinc additive is a good idea to break in a new or rebuilt engine, but use it too long and it can start to foul up a catalytic converter. I doubt it's going to resolve any other engine problems though, so i would say use a zinc additive because it's rebuilt, not because of the symptoms you're experiencing.

Well at this point it has 6k miles on the rebuild. But these newer oils don't have the proper friction modifiers required by our engines so I was wondering if anyone adds anything.

 

[CDW6212R]

I doubt the oil is any problem, any oil you try. I'd wonder most about the valvetrain, the springs chosen and the cam. What parts are there, and what rockers does it have, also what exhaust valve retainers? The valvetrain is easy to get a bit off if roller rockers are used, or odd parts choices etc.

The front main seal you can replace given the trouble to remove the front parts, and the balancer.

Most oils today are way better than 30 years ago, so viscosity is about the only tough decision. The 0-20 and 0-30 stuff are common now, but if the engine clearances are made oddly tight, you can still go up to a 20-50 oil easily. That 20-50w was the standard of performance 30+ years ago.


I use the thickest oil I can get priced well for my 95 Crown Vic 4.6, since it had water mix with the oil in 2005 or so. I've had a minor clatter in one head since then. So I change the oil often, thinking my noise is a wear of the cam inside the journals(no bearings). Thinner oils make more noise for this case.

I hope that you raised the compression some when the 306 was built, and used at least the 302 HO cam. 10:1 is a good goal to build one if you can get pistons to reach that.

 

[J_C]

I don't understand what you mean by "proper friction modifiers required by our engines". In theory there are things that can benefit an engine but foul a catalytic converter. I assumed this was a trade-off and design choice towards being able to use standard motor oil as-is.

What is this requirement? It's not in any Ford published document I have seen, but I could just be blissfully ignorant...

 

[1997XLTRollover]

I don't understand what you mean by "proper friction modifiers required by our engines". In theory there are things that can benefit an engine but foul a catalytic converter. I assumed this was a trade-off and design choice towards being able to use standard motor oil as-is.

What is this requirement? It's not in any Ford published document I have seen, but I could just be blissfully ignorant...

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/0803sr-modern-engine-oil/

 

[1997XLTRollover]

I doubt the oil is any problem, any oil you try. I'd wonder most about the valvetrain, the springs chosen and the cam. What parts are there, and what rockers does it have, also what exhaust valve retainers? The valvetrain is easy to get a bit off if roller rockers are used, or odd parts choices etc.

The front main seal you can replace given the trouble to remove the front parts, and the balancer.

Most oils today are way better than 30 years ago, so viscosity is about the only tough decision. The 0-20 and 0-30 stuff are common now, but if the engine clearances are made oddly tight, you can still go up to a 20-50 oil easily. That 20-50w was the standard of performance 30+ years ago.


I use the thickest oil I can get priced well for my 95 Crown Vic 4.6, since it had water mix with the oil in 2005 or so. I've had a minor clatter in one head since then. So I change the oil often, thinking my noise is a wear of the cam inside the journals(no bearings). Thinner oils make more noise for this case.

I hope that you raised the compression some when the 306 was built, and used at least the 302 HO cam. 10:1 is a good goal to build one if you can get pistons to reach that.

It was a stock rebuild. Heads were decked but only to clean them up. Its a 306 Because the cylinder wear was so bad we had to go that far. It has 25% stiffer than stock valve springs but other than that the rockers, cam, etc are all stock. It does have torque monster headers but that's about it.

 

[SWIGIN]

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/0803sr-modern-engine-oil/

In the link you posted the first sentence tells me you read to much into things. Our 5.0 motors are not flat tappet motors so that article means nothing.

I do have high performance flat tappet motors and do not add any additives to my oil and I just use good old dino oil. After 50,000 miles I tore down my 460 to inspect it and it had no wear and still had hone marks in the bores,

Going from x-30 to x-20 is really no difference at all IMO. Valve guide ware is over rated too unless it is huge.

If anything try old dino 15-40 in it, that weight typically has more zink in it and it's what I use in my 460. A 5.0 is a 302 and was designed in the early 1960s. That motors factory tolerances are not tight enough for the thin modern oils IMO.

That will start a flame fest but like I said, IMO.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

In the link you posted the first sentence tells me you read to much into things. Our 5.0 motors are not flat tappet motors so that article means nothing.

I do have high performance flat tappet motors and do not add any additives to my oil and I just use good old dino oil. After 50,000 miles I tore down my 460 to inspect it and it had no wear and still had hone marks in the bores,

Going from x-30 to x-20 is really no difference at all IMO. Valve guide ware is over rated too unless it is huge.

If anything try old dino 15-40 in it, that weight typically has more zink in it and it's what I use in my 460. A 5.0 is a 302 and was designed in the early 1960s. That motors factory tolerances are not tight enough for the thin modern oils IMO.

That will start a flame fest but like I said, IMO.

I was just sending the article so you got what I was talking about. I know we have full roller engines. Either way for example Ford's modular engines require 1000 ppm, when most oils today you're lucky if they have 800. Our old 5.0's probably needed something like 1200 or more.

 

[CDW6212R]

The flat tappet lifters(that means solid or hydraulic), those both can benefit from some of the oil additives you read about. But the roller lifters need nothing of an additive beyond what comes in any common oil now. You can add other things, or oil supplements etc, but other than possibly being bad for cats, that's a tough subject and most people skip them for their cars. I use one from Lubegard just for my 4.6 that might be hurt and I want to do all I can for it.


I suggest doing a leak down test, or at least a compression check. I'd worry about just the valves sealing, and possibly the wrong valve springs. If the testing finds nothing, I'd pull a valve cover and get a close look at the rockers, the pushrod tightness etc. It might be a lot of things, but those are the easiest before removing big parts.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

The flat tappet lifters(that means solid or hydraulic), those both can benefit from some of the oil additives you read about. But the roller lifters need nothing of an additive beyond what comes in any common oil now. You can add other things, or oil supplements etc, but other than possibly being bad for cats, that's a tough subject and most people skip them for their cars. I use one from Lubegard just for my 4.6 that might be hurt and I want to do all I can for it.

I suggest doing a leak down test, or at least a compression check. I'd worry about just the valves sealing, and possibly the wrong valve springs. If the testing finds nothing, I'd pull a valve cover and get a close look at the rockers, the pushrod tightness etc. It might be a lot of things, but those are the easiest before removing big parts.

Compression is even in all cylinders, I've pulled covers and everything is tight. Honestly I think I'm just going to chalk it up to lack of oil flow. Its fine any other time and I rev the thing to red line on a weekly basis with no issues. I've had it 21st 5500 with no noises at all.

I'm more so just wondering now if it would help from a wear standpoint to have the proper friction modifiers in the oil. I know all the modular mustang guys add some additives especially in the high performance engines. Maybe I should just run a diesel oil. Or just not worry about it and hope everything is fine.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

I wonder about the modular engines and why guys do it on them. They're all roller too obviously.

 

[CDW6212R]

The modular engines have much more delicate plastic internal parts, the timing chain guides being the big thing. I have the worst Ford late engine, the SOHC 4.0, based on the OHV 4.0 V6. Ford installed four tensioners, five if it has the balance shaft, and front/rear timing chains ride against plastic. So any wear is critical. I've read some about the differing 4.6 tensioners, and they have better alternatives than the 4.0 engine. But they all need the best oil, and viscosity is more important for those.

Browse Amazon and see if you can find the Lubegard oil additive. That's a good company, and they make the oil supplement in at least two sizes and under two different names(same product per reviews). I have bought the cheapest of those per ounce, and am adding a pint to each oil change. I'm not saying it definitely is the best, but I've tried many many oil things, and this seems to be the easiest to find through Amazon, on the PC.

Here is a quart of that Lubegard oil additive that I have been using. I have bought it from the $18 level to about $25 where it is now.
http://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-3091..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=0D0HEY6KDGPDAMEZ1CRR

 

[SWIGIN]

I wonder about the modular engines and why guys do it on them. They're all roller too obviously.

What I was getting at was our motors were drawn up in the 60s, mod motors are decades newer and made for the new oil as far as clearances go.