Your thoughts and Opinions on Building a 5.0

[Xan]

Opps i need to read better before i post

 

[CDW6212R]

Back up Xan, he didn't ask what parts affect sound, he asked why the stock Explorer 302 does not sound like older 302 Mustangs. I answered that question accurately.

The stock Explorer cam is so close to the Mustang cams that the sound is not different. This isn't about an "E" cam swapped in, this was about Ford making the Explorer 302(stock). The difference in sound is all in the stock exhaust.

All of the same changes that have been done to Mustang 302's can be done to the Explorer 302's, with similar sounds and idle. Regards,

 

[01xltranger4x4]

It is entirely in the exhaust system, nothing upstream of the headers. You can swap any Explorer 302 into any Mustang and it will sound absolutely the same as the Mustang 302. The slightest difference in the Explorer GT40 lower intake and camshaft has no affect on sound.

Thus work on the exhaust, the mufflers are 80% of the sound. You have little choice for headers, and nobody makes non stock cat pipes. Make your own cat pipes with high flow units, and add a decent crossover before two mufflers, and twin tail pipes. Good luck,

Idk i have to disagree somewhat. Lets compare both accurately...

I've heard several 99 5.0 Mountaineer's with no cats and 40 series flowmasters. I've also heard many fox and 94 5.0 mustangs with no cats and 40 series flowmasters(both true duals). Same exhaust but they sound different..

The mustang has such a throaty "built motor" sound when revving and accelerating. They also sound like they rev very quickly.

On the other hand, the explorers i've heard sound pretty good, but not the like mustangs. The explorer, with comparable exhaust to the stang, sounds like it is still "muffled" to a certain extent.

Thus bringing my conclusion that (i would like to think) Ford tunes the mustangs "hotter" than a normal 5.0 explorer, making the exhaust/engine note considerably better. My goal is to find out HOW to get a 5.0 explorer motor to sound like that..

What do you guys think?

 

[Xan]

i don't think the tune is really the issue i guess i don't really care about how the mustang sounds i just like the way mine sounds. btw the explorers had the better everything exsept the cam and tune. mustang guys pull our parts to put on their cars, and the tune can be changed at the push of a butten so if you think its in the tune change it. throw a mustang cam in while you're at it and you'll probaily have your sound with that

 

[RubySlow]

Idk i have to disagree somewhat. Lets compare both accurately...

I've heard several 99 5.0 Mountaineer's with no cats and 40 series flowmasters. I've also heard many fox and 94 5.0 mustangs with no cats and 40 series flowmasters(both true duals). Same exhaust but they sound different..

The mustang has such a throaty "built motor" sound when revving and accelerating. They also sound like they rev very quickly.

On the other hand, the explorers i've heard sound pretty good, but not the like mustangs. The explorer, with comparable exhaust to the stang, sounds like it is still "muffled" to a certain extent.

Thus bringing my conclusion that (i would like to think) Ford tunes the mustangs "hotter" than a normal 5.0 explorer, making the exhaust/engine note considerably better. My goal is to find out HOW to get a 5.0 explorer motor to sound like that..

What do you guys think?

Dont forget the Explorer exhaust is 2.25" and a mustang is 2.5" And the exhaust setup is totally different mustang has a h pipe and an explorer has no h pipe. Have you heard a 5.0 mustang with 3 inch exhaust sounds totally different than a 2.5" exhaust setup. Headers make a huge difference as well.

 

[techieman33]

My exhaust and headers made a big difference in sound. the tuning did nothing for sound at all. It sounds the same as it did with the stock tune. If there is any difference it's to little for me to be able to hear.

 

[CDW6212R]

Stop and go back to my last two posts. All of the answers are in there.

To repeat myself with different words, you cannot compare the Explorer and Mustang directly as long as the Explorer has the awful headers on it. I mentioned that, and you casually ignored that fact. The engines(long block) can be swapped and they will sound exactly like the vehicle did before. The headers can not be swapped between the two, that's the one thing which will determine the biggest difference.

Like I said, reconstruct the Explorer exhaust with similar cat pipes, cross overs, twin mufflers, and two tail pipes, then they will be as close as possible. I mentioned all of this before, it is entirely about the exhaust, and you are stuck with the small headers. Good luck,

 

[justin146]

Idk i have to disagree somewhat. Lets compare both accurately...

I've heard several 99 5.0 Mountaineer's with no cats and 40 series flowmasters. I've also heard many fox and 94 5.0 mustangs with no cats and 40 series flowmasters(both true duals). Same exhaust but they sound different..

The mustang has such a throaty "built motor" sound when revving and accelerating. They also sound like they rev very quickly.

On the other hand, the explorers i've heard sound pretty good, but not the like mustangs. The explorer, with comparable exhaust to the stang, sounds like it is still "muffled" to a certain extent.

Thus bringing my conclusion that (i would like to think) Ford tunes the mustangs "hotter" than a normal 5.0 explorer, making the exhaust/engine note considerably better. My goal is to find out HOW to get a 5.0 explorer motor to sound like that..

What do you guys think?

What gives a Mustang its sound is the symmetrical dual exhaust with minimum bends. If you were to somehow hang a Mustang X-pipe and a flowmaster 40 catback under your truck, it would sound EXACTLY as it does on the Mustang. Another thing- the Mustang sound most people are familiar with is from a manual tranny car; an automatic cant load down the engine off idle like a manual tranny can. So an auto tranny Explorer will never sound like a 5speed Mustang, just like an automatic Mustang will never sound exactly like the 5speed variant.

 

[01xltranger4x4]

Stop and go back to my last two posts. All of the answers are in there.

To repeat myself with different words, you cannot compare the Explorer and Mustang directly as long as the Explorer has the awful headers on it. I mentioned that, and you casually ignored that fact. The engines(long block) can be swapped and they will sound exactly like the vehicle did before. The headers can not be swapped between the two, that's the one thing which will determine the biggest difference.

Like I said, reconstruct the Explorer exhaust with similar cat pipes, cross overs, twin mufflers, and two tail pipes, then they will be as close as possible. I mentioned all of this before, it is entirely about the exhaust, and you are stuck with the small headers. Good luck,

I know what your saying...

You also think the block has something to do with the sound as well? Mustangs have the short block and explorers have the long blocks, correct? And you can swap each other? Which is better from a performance standpoint?

 

[techieman33]

The blocks are the same, there is no difference


Short block is an automotive term describing an engine sub-assembly.

A short block is the portion of the engine block below the head gasket but above the oil pan. A flathead engine will also include the cam and valvetrain. The overhead valve style of engine will not include the aforementioned parts on the shortblock. A shortblock is usually purchased to upgrade the water jacket, piston size or bore. Assemblies typically include the crankshaft installed and balanced along with the main bearing.

Long block is an automotive term describing an engine sub-assembly consisting of the following:

* Short block. The long block is always a superset of the corresponding short block.
* Cylinder head. A complete new or remanufactured cylinder head assembly is installed with a new head gasket and torqued to specification. Complete cylinder heads include new or reconditioned valves, valve springs, valve guides (if applicable), valve seats (if applicable), valve locks, and valve keepers. The bare head is free from cracks, warps, or holes.
* If the engine is a flathead, then the valve train is installed if the short block did not already have it.

On most engines, the camshaft will be installed. On many engines with timing gears, the camshaft will be timed.

 

[01xltranger4x4]

Interesting.

I still think the main part of why a motor can sound different is the computer/tune.

Another example: the Ranger had a small facelift from the 01-03 design to the 04 'superduty look'. Along with this facelift in the 2004 model year, there was a major wiring/electrical change. There were no changes to the 4.0 SOHC motor through the 03/04 differences.

- BUT the 01-03 4.0 sohc motors sound different than the 04+ 4.0 sohc

The 04+ 4.0 sohc sounds much better and more like a v8 than the 01-03 motors. Nothing was changed to the motor, BUT the computer program is different/upgraded. This again is leading me to believe that it is possible to change the sound of a motor through computer changes.

 

[CDW6212R]

FYI, here are two eBay auctions, one for a short block 331, the other is a long block 331. This is just one example from one company.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=160156466423&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=160154432878&rd=1

 

[Xan]

Why do you guys care so much about the sound? Are you saying that all explorers sound bad? I care how my truck performes more then how it sounds but it does sound awsome.... if you want to sound like a mustang buy a mustang

 

[MountaineerGreen]

Exhaust sound is altered by many variables, tubing length, mufflers, X or H pipe, muffler placement in relation to the motor and exhaust tips, the size / shape of exhaust tips can significantly alter the sound. A block from a Mustang and a block from an Explorer will sound exactly the same as long as all the internals are the same. A lumpy cam can alter the idle characteristics, and tone to a certain extent, but not a whole lot.

If you are talking about exhaust sound from the drivers seat, then that is a whole other ball game, the resonance properties of the cabin in a Mustang are vastly different than in an Explorer.

I had a 4.6 Ford Thunderbird, I went through many exhaust combinations before I found the sound I wanted. Its all about what sound you like and how much drone you are willing to tolerate. There was another member on here who spent a lot of time and money on x pipes, straight pipes, mufflers, etc. I don't believe he ever got the Mustang sound he wanted.

 

[Turdle]

It is the camshaft AND the imbalanced exhaust combined which give the "choppy" sound. High torque camshafts usually have that sound-and the explorer cam is just that. In fact, ford calls it a "high torque" camshaft.

Believe it or not-my truck actually had a pretty good tone with stock headers-however it was a bit out of balance with the true dual exhaust.
The driver side tube was about 5 feet longer than the passenger side tube. You. will never totally overcome this sound issue with a dual exhaust system, even if you do have an x pipe.
I have a single 2.5" tailpipe now-
If I drove by you you would swear it is duals.

 

[CDW6212R]

Jon, we spend too much time trying to explain these basics to younger enthusiasts. Too many of them think that the sound is connected to performance. They figure if they can match the sound that magically they can start racing Mustangs?

FYI, I noticed in a Jeg's catalog today that Rhoads makes an OEM replacement roller lifter. I loved the Rhoads lifters in my old 351-4V Gran Torino, it helped the low end torque a lot. I may buy those to work with the 212/222 cam that I plan to use. The stock cam is not much over 204 degrees, and the Explorer's strength is from 0-20mph. I don't want to lose any of that. Regards,

 

[Turdle]

Jon, we spend too much time trying to explain these basics to younger enthusiasts. Too many of them think that the sound is connected to performance. They figure if they can match the sound that magically they can start racing Mustangs?

FYI, I noticed in a Jeg's catalog today that Rhoads makes an OEM replacement roller lifter. I loved the Rhoads lifters in my old 351-4V Gran Torino, it helped the low end torque a lot. I may buy those to work with the 212/222 cam that I plan to use. The stock cam is not much over 204 degrees, and the Explorer's strength is from 0-20mph. I don't want to lose any of that. Regards,

Well said. An exhaust can be made to sound like a badass engine-

A badass engine will make any exhaust sound badass

You guys swap a cam in, and the few goodies it takes to make it work ( torque monster headers for one)-and you will smile-trust me

Then, get a torque converter to match this camshaft-and you will giggle--
After this I would look to the exhaust--you might find it is loud enough.


OK-
Don, you ought to link the lifters in here--bring this baby back on track.

 

[CDW6212R]

These may be good for a lot of engines, and the smallblock Ford lifters fit 385 series Fords also(460). This is the 817-1008X part, for $290 a set, not cheap but if they work;
https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/sto...nXKbI 6XyeRy3tnhs+UqN6sw==&ddkey=OrderItemAdd

 

[Turdle]

For maximum increases in low-end torque, engine vacuum and improved idle quality, our newly developed and newly patented Rhoads V-Max OE Roller Variable Duration Lifters are the answer. They increase low-end torque and engine vacuum up to 50% more than Orginal Rhoads Lifters...and they rev higher too. This makes them the best choice for hot street, performance marine and all racing applications. Typical vacuum increases range between 3 to 5 inches at idle when used with bigger cams. They are fully adjustable and require an adjustable valve train. Adjustment is similar to solid lifters. Simply use a feeler gauge to adjust the exact amount of lift reduction you want, anywhere from .010" to .030", and that is exactly what you get at idle. Duration is reduced between 5 and 20 degrees at .050" lift depending on the adjustment. As the rpm increases, so does the lift and duration. Full restoration takes place at approximately 4000 rpm. For engines equipped with adjustable valve trains, Rhoads V-Max OE Roller Lifters are definately the best choice. They are particularly suited for racing applications with vacuum rules. You can run more cam than your competition while still meeting vacuum requirements, giving you the performance advantage. They are also useful in allowing larger cams to be used in computer controlled engines without disrupting proper computer functions.



Wow--this is good stuff. hmmmm--
I think I might have to get these--

 

[CDW6212R]

Ha, I thought that you might like that description.