Zhanx's SAS - HP Dana 44 on 37's thread

[zhanx]

Ok decided I would like to run 37's.

I know knowi just locked the front and etc, etc. but over the next year i will have about 3 months(non consecutive) of time to wheel. the rest will be spent in schools training to to be an uber elite solider wearing a green beret. So I was like heck might as well do a SAS and do it right since I will gonna be saving all that money.

I've been thinking about axles.. tons of choices are brought up by research. My questions are there :

Should I buy a currie built axle or get a junk yard one and rebuilt it (remember time is not an option for me at this point but i did find one at a junk yard for 350 or so)?

How do i measure for coil-overs? (something i noticed no one covered in their threads)

Is the rubicon long arm kit the easiest way to do this? (more on that later)

Hydralic Ram Steering ?!?!? is it as easy as i think or am i way off by thinking its easy to setup verus anything else

ARB air lockers everyone raves- (410 input please on this) are they worth it?

Will my stock transfer hold up for now or should i swap to a manual?

How much better are out board shocks than in board?

I dont expect all these to be answered for me so dont worry. I will adding answers and websites for parts as time goes on. Most likly i will not be doing the swap unless a miracle happens and i get time.. but i want all the right parts before i pay someone to do it for me. This thread will have a ton of stuff in hopefully by the time i am done to answer any question on a coil over sas. Any input who be great,, as i want to start ordering parts for this in march.

hmm.. found a couple of wagoneer dana 44 at a junkyard that i need to go check out and get a firm price on.. might go that way for now.

started a price list to figure out the basic cost to just rebuild the axle out of a 80's wagoneer (will adjust when i get the axle and the year and add to it)

from accuautoparts.com

$142.80 MOTIVE GEAR - 4.56 RATIO RING & PINION GEARSET
$ 99.87 MASTER INSTALL KIT
_______
$229.80
from autozone.com
$ 15.99 FENCO_REMAN DRIVER SIDE BRAKE CALIPER
$ 15.99 FENCO_REMAN PASSENGER SIDE BRAKE CALIPER
$ 24.99 DURALAST SEMI-METALLIC BRAKE PADS
_______
$286.99

from offroadlockers.
$229.99 Aussie Locker
_______
$516.76

am i missing anything? Still cheaper than the Superlift or trailmaster kits.

 

[Randall]

Should I buy a currie built axle or get a junk yard one and rebuilt it (remember time is not an option for me at this point but i did find one at a junk yard for 350 or so)?

Depends on if money is an issue. The currie/dynarape axles are costly, and really are unnecassary if you are going to be running a stock width axle.

How do i measure for coil-overs? (something i noticed no one covered in their threads)

You will have to wait until everything else is in, then measure your maximum compression and extension of your axle's movement range.

Is the rubicon long arm kit the easiest way to do this? (more on that later)

Not necessarily. Many times arms that are made for other vehicles will have to be modified to work for your application anyway, which can add to thier initial price. So you might as well make them from scratch.

Hydralic Ram Steering ?!?!? is it as easy as i think or am i way off by thinking its easy to setup verus anything else

Easy? Not as easy obviously as a tie rod and drag link. Are you talking ram assist, or full hydro? If only ram-assist, then you will need to set up normal steering linkage anyway. Full hydro will require addtional parts, such as an orbital valve, and extra power steering fluid capacity.

ARB air lockers everyone raves- (410 input please on this) are they worth it?

No. Get a Detroit SofLocker and forget about it. Especially if you have manual hubs, since the locker will have no effect when the hubs are unlocked anyway.

Will my stock transfer hold up for now or should i swap to a manual?

The stock unit is fine, if it's limited low range is enough for you. The manual version is better (less parts that could fail).

How much better are out board shocks than in board?

Eh, don't know much about this one except that you can get more suspension travel from the same length shock the further inboard they are mounted. Although, the further in they are mounted, the less actual shock absorbing they are doing.

 

[zhanx]

Found a couple of websites with info on the dana 44 (the more the merrier for me)

this site here has a ton of info on the knuckles and high steering including a chart of years and a part numbers for cross reference.

http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/flatop_knucles.html

this page has link to shaft length charts
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/web_rs44.html

Still need to research and then try to find the right knuckles to keep 4.5 on 5.


Thanks Mudd***** for the input. On the rubicon's long arm setup i was thinking of jeff's SAS and how he used them.

On the steering will ram assist allow me to turn 37's while stopped? if so then that is all i want.. to be able to turn while offroading.

 

[RockRanger]

Still need to research and then try to find the right knuckles to keep 4.5 on 5.


.

There are two ways to keep a 5 on 4.5 on a dana 44. One is to have currie or one of the other shops build you a dana 44 with dana 30 outers and use the same hubs as a TTB ranger. Or the second is I believe 75-79 dadge half tons used a 5 on 4.5 front dana 44 but it has no hubs and from what I have heard a really weak wheel bearing design. You are better off making the dana 44 5 on 5.5 or 6 on 5.5 and then converting the rear and buy new wheels.

 

[zhanx]

updated first post

 

[Randall]

started a price list to figure out the basic cost to just rebuild the axle out of a 80's wagoneer (will adjust when i get the axle and the year and add to it)

from accuautoparts.com

$142.80 MOTIVE GEAR - 4.56 RATIO RING & PINION GEARSET
$ 99.87 MASTER INSTALL KIT
_______
$229.80
from autozone.com
$ 15.99 FENCO_REMAN DRIVER SIDE BRAKE CALIPER
$ 15.99 FENCO_REMAN PASSENGER SIDE BRAKE CALIPER
$ 24.99 DURALAST SEMI-METALLIC BRAKE PADS
_______
$286.99

from offroadlockers.
$229.99 Aussie Locker
_______
$516.76

am i missing anything? Still cheaper than the Superlift or trailmaster kits.

Yeah, you're missing a bunch. You'll need axle seals, rotors, hubs, ball joints, seals and bearings. And saying that it is cheaper than a Superlift or Trailmaster kit is farfetched, at best. You still need new wheels, the suspension components for front and rear, custom fab work to mount the suspension components and tackbar, new rear axle shafts (to get the 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern of the wagoneer front axle). That's just to get you started. How ever much you think it is going to cost, it will cost more.

 

[nissanboy]

If you are going to SAS dont skimp on axles... sure you can get a LP44 and have a nice rig with a solid axle bu the way you wheel with 37's ona LP44 you are asking to replace shafts. I know it looks cheaper to go ahead and buy the cheaper axle to start with but think how much more you will spend replacing a u-joint and/or shaft every time you beat on it. I would go ahead and get at least a HP44.

I dont have any experience with an ARB but from what i have seen they have more issues with the air lines leaking or the compressor going bad or something in the wiring not working right. Just way to much to go wrong IMO. GO for a EX locker or Soft locker from Detroit or even an Aussie since you had such good luck with them before.

As for ram steering you dont want to run full hydro on the street. Sure you will be able to steer easily but when a valve goes bad and locks your steering to one side while your heading down the highway at 70mph you will understand the reason its not legal in most states if its legal in any. Now for Hydro assist you can run it on the street but I would disable for use on the street just in case something were to go wrong and a valve or somethign go bad and force your steering crazy. I think the best option would be to pick a steering box that you wont need any asist for. PSC makes some nice steering boxes that make 35's on a TJ steerable on or offroad with one finger.

 

[sn0border88]

also missing rear gears and install kit, from what ive seen myself and heard from many people when all is said and done an SAS will usually run aroun 1200 completed, but figure higher to be on the safe side. But its well worth it, rockranger, can you give more details on keeping the 5 on 4.5 for the d44? im very intrested in that.

 

[nissanboy]

forget 5 on 4.5 the 8.8 is way narrow, so get a set of spacers for it to make it whatever bolt pattern you want.

 

[jshexplo96]

You should be able to get alot of info from 034x4 SAS thread...he used a waggy axle and the hydro steering.

josh

 

[zhanx]

also missing rear gears and install kit, from what ive seen myself and heard from many people when all is said and done an SAS will usually run aroun 1200 completed, but figure higher to be on the safe side. But its well worth it, rockranger, can you give more details on keeping the 5 on 4.5 for the d44? im very intrested in that.

umm no i have 4.56's in my x right now.

You should be able to get alot of info from 034x4 SAS thread...he used a waggy axle and the hydro steering.

josh

i am trust me.. using his steering with jefe's rubicon long arm setup i think

forget 5 on 4.5 the 8.8 is way narrow, so get a set of spacers for it to make it whatever bolt pattern you want.

gonna do that to make the front and rear the same width.

 

[zhanx]

.
As for ram steering you dont want to run full hydro on the street. Sure you will be able to steer easily but when a valve goes bad and locks your steering to one side while your heading down the highway at 70mph you will understand the reason its not legal in most states if its legal in any. Now for Hydro assist you can run it on the street but I would disable for use on the street just in case something were to go wrong and a valve or somethign go bad and force your steering crazy. I think the best option would be to pick a steering box that you wont need any asist for. PSC makes some nice steering boxes that make 35's on a TJ steerable on or offroad with one finger.

me and chad talked about this tonight. Instead of fabing a shaft for a ranger or 1st gen box, etc.. use a TJ box. tons more options for pumps( i know its just fabing a hose with teh right end on it and you can use any pump/steering box combo) and upgrades later. Plus PSC and AGR both make ram assist kit if i decide an upgraded pump and box isn't enough. I've read a couple good reviews on both. So i think price will decide this one.

 

[RockRanger]

rockranger, can you give more details on keeping the 5 on 4.5 for the d44? im very intrested in that.

Thats all the info I know on the 5 on 4.5 dana 44 stuff. Just seen a few dodges in the junkyards with them. As far as the dana 30 you could I guess reverse engineer from this info into putting yj dana 30s on a 44. Would be going backwards though. Other then that you are on your own.

 

[supergildo]

As for ram steering you dont want to run full hydro on the street.

legally, you must have a shaft connecting the steering wheel and axle, although i doubt a cop would look for that and give you a ticket...

 

[zainyD]

As far as the 5x4.5 bolt pattern, you MIGHT be able to use a Dodge D44 caliper, but don't quote me on that....

 

[sn0border88]

legally, you must have a shaft connecting the steering wheel and axle, although i doubt a cop would look for that and give you a ticket...

Wouldnt that mean that it wouldnt pass inspection as well?

 

[zhanx]

still doin my research.. right now it looks like a d30 out of a jeep (for now) with leafs, with an upgrade later to a d44 with coil overs.

if i go with a dana 30 out of a jeep this is what i found.

steering setup will mostly transfer

tons of locker choices but lower strength

dime a dozen

but i dont know how to figure out the leaf rate..

help on that please so i can make this happen a peice at a time

 

[nissanboy]

Guess and check... stock waggy leafs spring over on a D30 should give you enough lift to clear 37's and have room to flex with your fiber fenders. Personally i would stick to 35's ont eh D30 cause i know how you wheel.

but honestly you will spend the same amount building the d30 the first time as you will if you go ahead and do a d44. Stop being lazy and find you a waggoneer axle take its leaf springs while your under it and might as well grab that tie rod and drag link.

 

[Yomie]

I used a waggy leaf reversed combined with my 3" BL i have plenty of room for 37's with some trimming at full flex. I fyou didn't have the body lift you could use the rancho leaf (44044) 2" lifted waggy leaf.

My waggy leafs came from JC whitney, they have sagged a little but not much. 034x4 also used the waggy spring rate, but got custom leavs so they werent so long.

i got some pics

stock waggy springs and 35" BFG's...plenty of room

still flexy for leafs

 

[034x4]

Running a d30 with leafs and then upgrading to a d44 with coilovers is completely pointless. That would be an upgrade/complete rebuild. Go ahead and get the d44 and put it on.

It might be worth it if you set it up with a d30 and leafs and then a d44 with leafs. Or vise-a-versa (30 with c/o's and then 44 with c/o's).