PTU Problems

[peterk9]

5yr/60,000 so it would depend on your mileage as well. It cost me $1400 to have mine replaced.

That's about the price of a 7 or 8 year ESP.

Peter

 

[Fordgrl99]

Transfer Case issues

I saw a couple of other threads, but they seemed older and I didn't want to hijack one of them. Just a question - has anyone had to have their transfer case replaced?

Dealer charges $400+ for the 30000 mile check, so I conned my hubby into doing it for me - mostly just normal tune items (ie filters, etc) and a bunch of inspections. Since he and his brother are mechanics and his brother owns a shop with a lift, etc, I figured they could just do it for 'free'. LOL Anyway, they found a leak around the front passenger axle seal. Took it in last week to the dealer, they confirmed the leak, ordered the seal and had me bring it back in on Monday. Dropped it off and left it. Monday afternoon they tell me they ordered the wrong seal and had a new one on order for Tues. Yesterday they call me and tell me that they put it back together with the new seal and determined it's still leaking and the location (from the top) indicates a leak from the transfer case, so they are going to replace it. Wow - was not expecting that. I've not noticed any issues driving it. They put it back together, topped off the fluids, and had me come get it. Said they put a 'emergency request' in for a new one, but there were none currently available and it may take a couple of weeks to get it in. They also advised would be a day to a day and a half for the work, but they will get me in a car while they have it. I'm actually at 39000 miles on it, so I'm very, very glad this will be covered under the powertrain warranty!

 

[peterk9]

The Explorer doesn't have an actual 'transfer case'. What is has is called a PTU, a Power Transfer Unit. I have merged your thread with this existing one on the same issue. Never be concerned about 'awakening' an old thread. It is better that having several threads on the same issue.

Peter

 

[Fordgrl99]

The Explorer doesn't have an actual 'transfer case'. What is has is called a PTU, a Power Transfer Unit. I have merged your thread with this existing one on the same issue. Never be concerned about 'awakening' an old thread. It is better that having several threads on the same issue.

Peter

Got it! Thanks! I saw somewhere a conversation about transfer case and PTU, but the dealer called it a "transfer case". LOL

 

[Fordgrl99]

Hold the phone! I'm reading over all these other posts and am wondering something. A few months back I started smelling something usually at low speeds or sitting at an idle...to me it smells like the gear oil we used when we had to rebuild the rear end of my 99 F150...could this smell actually be the PTU going bad??? It comes and goes and never lasts long...Haven't taken it in for the smell because it's so sporadic. Honestly I thought it was something to do with the heat/ac...only smell it in the cabin

 

[peterk9]

Hold the phone! I'm reading over all these other posts and am wondering something. A few months back I started smelling something usually at low speeds or sitting at an idle...to me it smells like the gear oil we used when we had to rebuild the rear end of my 99 F150...could this smell actually be the PTU going bad??? It comes and goes and never lasts long...Haven't taken it in for the smell because it's so sporadic. Honestly I thought it was something to do with the heat/ac...only smell it in the cabin

Post 157 mentions a smell.

Peter

 

[1995E]

Hold the phone! I'm reading over all these other posts and am wondering something. A few months back I started smelling something usually at low speeds or sitting at an idle...to me it smells like the gear oil we used when we had to rebuild the rear end of my 99 F150...could this smell actually be the PTU going bad??? It comes and goes and never lasts long...Haven't taken it in for the smell because it's so sporadic. Honestly I thought it was something to do with the heat/ac...only smell it in the cabin

The PTU is directly behind the transmission and it has the drive shaft going to the rear differential coming off of it. I'd jack it up safely or drive it up some ramps and go under there to look at it. You can clearly see the darkness around the spots that leak, it may just be drips, or may leak only when driven.

The PTU leak is a very common issue and will almost certainly happen if you drive it at all. Ford has done nothing to redesign the PTU for our model years. They'll just pop in a new PTU and you'll probably be good for another 30,000 - 50,000 miles before it leaks again.

Apparently the police interceptor models would notify you if the PTU fluid has reached a certain temperature that causes it to become thick like grease where it can't lubricate anymore and cause failure/leaks, and the notice means to change the fluid.

Here are some articles about the Ford PTU:
http://repairpal.com/yet-another-ptu-031

http://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9334
Quoting Waldo on the fordflex forums (Has same PTU as us):
"From what I've heard, the PTU lube is an all or nothing type of thing. It might last the lifetime of the vehicle, but if it goes overtemp just once, it's junk.

Now the statement in the MKX manual is likely targeted to the Middle East crowd, they do a lot of sand driving over there. In fact the Explorer sold in the Middle East has a water cooled PTU. But if you look up the Police Interceptor OG, it describes how the Police cars actually have an "active" monitor that basically looks for overtemp conditions and if it sees them, it puts a notice to change the PTU oil in the message center.

My limited experience has been that in normal on-road driving, you're never going to overtemp the fluid, thus a lifetime fill is reasonable. But anyone towing on hills (especially twisty hills), going to a race track or doing a lot of aggressive off-road or snow driving could get to the point where the fluid needs to be changed."

Here's an article about how to maintain the PTU for the police:

https://www.hendonpub.com/police_fl...d_nextgen_police_intercept_tech_trning_part_1

"Police-Only Power Transfer Unit

Since the Power Transfer Unit operates all the time to spin the driveshaft to the rear, the PTU can get hot. On the police version, a number of steps are taken to assure reliability and durability in police use. First, a cooler is added to the front of the PTU housing. The police-only PTU housing has an integral water jacket connected with water lines that run to the bottom three coils of the radiator. The jacket receives engine coolant from the radiator to maintain the correct PTU oil temperature.

Second, the PTU has a gear lube temperature sensor. A module keeps track of the gear lube temp, and how long / how often it was at that temperature. When a threshold is reached, a change PTU Oil light activated.

Finally, the AWD system has a two-stage way to protect itself from damage during extreme, prolonged use. The ATC as a heat protection strategy based on a number of factors, including wheel speed and duration of activity, to determine if overheating is occurring. If the ATC detects overheating, it will lock the clutches together to cool them. Clutches that slip to provide partial torque transfer get hot from the friction of the slippage. Locking the clutches stops the slip and cools the entire unit. In a locked condition, power is transferred to the rear wheels.

If the temp continues to rise even in a locked condition, the PCM disables the coupling altogether. The vehicle operates only as a FWD. AWD OFF is displayed. On the Police Interceptors, the PCM will automatically exit heat protection mode and clear the AWD OFF message when the temp returns to normal. This whole process is sped up by turning the ignition off and allowing the vehicle to cool for 10 minutes.

The ATC/RDU used on the Police Interceptors uses fluid-filled “wet” clutch packs. The retail Taurus and Explorer use dry clutches. The PI wet clutches can withstand higher temps and withstand higher temps longer than the retail unit. The ATC and RDU are not field serviceable. In case of a problem with either system, the whole unit is replaced."

From what I've heard, even the more beefed up PTU on the Police Explorers have overheated and failed, and it's not just one or two either. (I know a guy who works at service dealership that the DC metropolitan police always takes their cars to get worked on).

Why am I ranting? Because my PTU is already leaking 1 month after the replacement, but it's out of powertrain warranty. I know my PTU is going to fail again eventually because I drive my car with lots of people all the time and I tow a lot. It having lifetime fluid makes it unserviceable which means I can't change the fluid before it causes a failure. It upsets me that Ford hasn't made a procedure to for preventative maintenance for the civilian Explorer or redesigned a replacement PTU so it won't happen again on the current generation Explorer.

 

[Bviss16]

PTU Leaking

:thumbdwn::thumbdwn:My 2013 Explorer has 62,000 miles. After the last service we were told the PTU is leaking. Dealer quoted approximately $1800.
After viewing the long list of posts about leaking PTUs, how is it that Explorer owners aren't incensed about this like I am. How is it that an upper end SUV can have an expensive part failure and people post, " 11,000 miles....my dealer is so good, they fixed it quickly???? This is a design failure, and a huge disappointment in Ford products. The service manager told me that everybody know and the salesperson should of told me that PTU leaking is common for all Ford SUV? HUH? also stated that everyone knows that an extended warranty is a must for Ford SUVs.

 

[blwnsmoke]

:thumbdwn::thumbdwn:My 2013 Explorer has 62,000 miles. After the last service we were told the PTU is leaking. Dealer quoted approximately $1800.
After viewing the long list of posts about leaking PTUs, how is it that Explorer owners aren't incensed about this like I am. How is it that an upper end SUV can have an expensive part failure and people post, " 11,000 miles....my dealer is so good, they fixed it quickly???? This is a design failure, and a huge disappointment in Ford products. The service manager told me that everybody know and the salesperson should of told me that PTU leaking is common for all Ford SUV? HUH? also stated that everyone knows that an extended warranty is a must for Ford SUVs.

Ask them why they are trying to charge you $1,200 in labor on a $650 part. It doesn't take 12 hours to change a PTU.

 

[Bviss16]

thanks for responding......the dealership quote for the part is $1,060 and labor of $550, fluids $50 and tax.

 

[blwnsmoke]

thanks for responding......the dealership quote for the part is $1,060 and labor of $550, fluids $50 and tax.

http://parts.autonationfordwhitebea...&search_in=all&search_str=power transfer unit

Not defending Ford but if this is an out of pocket expense.. buy from above or see if your dealer will match the price. That is 10% over cost.

 

[Bviss16]

It is an out of pocket expense. I will follow your advice. Thank you.

 

[Bviss16]

blwnsmoke----Is the transfer case the PTU?

 

[peterk9]

:thumbdwn::thumbdwn:My 2013 Explorer has 62,000 miles. After the last service we were told the PTU is leaking. Dealer quoted approximately $1800.
After viewing the long list of posts about leaking PTUs, how is it that Explorer owners aren't incensed about this like I am. How is it that an upper end SUV can have an expensive part failure and people post, " 11,000 miles....my dealer is so good, they fixed it quickly???? This is a design failure, and a huge disappointment in Ford products. The service manager told me that everybody know and the salesperson should of told me that PTU leaking is common for all Ford SUV? HUH? also stated that everyone knows that an extended warranty is a must for Ford SUVs.

There is a post earlier in this thread where a member had the issue fixed by the dealer for $1300.
Also, a salesperson is not likely to mention a PTU issue even if they knew about it. It has also been discussed in this forum that a vehicles price has very little to do with whether or not it will have any issues. The PTU problem is only one of several threads that contain many posts. Have you seen the ones on 'Water Leaks' or 'Power Steering Loss'?

Peter

 

[182RG]

blwnsmoke----Is the transfer case the PTU?

Yes, there is no transfer case.

 

[blwnsmoke]

blwnsmoke----Is the transfer case the PTU?

As stated, yes it is. If you look at the web link in full it says "power transfer unit". It is a bit confusing when you look at the part description on the website. You will want to put your VIN in to make sure you get the right one because it shows 2 different ones.

Also, the part will come with a 2 year unlimited mile warranty once repaired as an FYI.

May want to contact an independent mechanic and see what they would charge. This is not a difficult job.

 

[Sgt1411]

Here's some info I just received from Police Advisory Board

Complaint:
Excessive oil smell when driving, AWD not working, cracked housing, noisy.

Root Cause:
PTU damaged due to torque loading of idler gear which causes bearing to walk into case

Improvement Actions:

Jan 2014 - Full faced thrust washer (FFTW) introduced
Prevents idler bearing from walking into aluminum case.

Oct 2015 – Loose Fit Idler Bearing
Dyno Testing Shows ~ 2 x improvement over FFTW design

May/June 2016 – New Bearing Design without drawn cups
Eliminates Walk Mechanism
Dyno Testing Shows ~3-4 x improvement over FFTW design

 

[1995E]

Here's some info I just received from Police Advisory Board

Complaint:
Excessive oil smell when driving, AWD not working, cracked housing, noisy.

Root Cause:
PTU damaged due to torque loading of idler gear which causes bearing to walk into case

Improvement Actions:

Jan 2014 - Full faced thrust washer (FFTW) introduced
Prevents idler bearing from walking into aluminum case.

Oct 2015 – Loose Fit Idler Bearing
Dyno Testing Shows ~ 2 x improvement over FFTW design

May/June 2016 – New Bearing Design without drawn cups
Eliminates Walk Mechanism
Dyno Testing Shows ~3-4 x improvement over FFTW design

Do you know if this improvement is only in the PI PTU or is it for the civilian model PTUs as well? Good to know if my PTU leaks again, I can instead buy a newer redesign PTU if I have to.

 

[Sgt1411]

My understanding is it's for Police and Sport because they share the same liquid cooled PTU. I don't know about the Platinum or other models but if that part has high failure rates they would change it across the line. I guess to confirm you would need a 2017 production model to check part numbers.

 

[reserved50]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...cs/4032465/all/Power_Transfer_Unit_(PTU)-_75W

One thing I didn't like is how the driveshaft/pinion in the PTU is so high above the oil level. I'm sure most of these oil issues wouldn't happen if the capacity was a lot higher. I've changed out the fluid in mine at least 7 times now in under 10K, it still looks dark , Im guessing the inside of the case is just caked with old oil.

The Mazda people are changing their fluid very frequently, sounds like the only reasonable solution for now

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...Changing-CX-9-transfer-case-gear-oil-(photos)