After market brakes... Gauging interest.

[rudypoochris]

I am thinking about converting my 1992 Ford Explorer front brake setup to something a little more powerful and easier to maintain. I am sick of having to deal with the sticky calipers honestly and I think its time I got a little more performance up front since it seems that the 1G Explorers have a bit too much rear brake bias in them.

In any case, the planned setup would most likely be a two piece 12.2"x1.25" rotor with a 4 piston racing caliper. The setup should be pretty light as well compared to the stock units. It would include SS lines, pads, and all the hardware and bracketry required.

Just trying to gauge interest here. Would you be interested if this cost $1200? If it cost $1000? If it cost $800? If it costs $600? Or are you all just not interested at all? Do you want a larger diameter rotor - if so are you willing to pay (rotors above 12.2" typically cost either a lot of money or they are 1-piece and thus quite heavy)? I am going to try and fit the 12.2" setup under stock wheels.

Let me know.

 

[Four0Sport]

I do agree that 91-94 explorers dont have the best front brake setup but most people are running on factory rotors and calipers till and these new parts along with a good brake fluid flush dramatically improves your stopping power.

some questions that rose up when i read your post though.. im assuming your explorer is 4wd? if so how are you going to get around the 4wd hubs with an aftermarket 2 piece large pizza sized rotor? i have seen some vented and/or slotted rotors for the 1st gens but nothing oversized. the 91-94 explorer brake setup is deffinetly unique, just some thoughts as i saw that no one has replied to your post yet.

 

[rudypoochris]

Thanks for the reply. I am running a 4x4 Explorer. I need to further look at the Explorer front as it has been a while. I think the biggest issue will be in mounting the caliper itself due to the funky slide setup. This is the basic idea for the hat setup:

Pretty common piece.

Don't get me wrong here... the stock Explorer front brakes are actually pretty decent (the pedal feel is pretty good on mine too!). BUT it has always been a pain for me to get them to wear evenly and not stick over time. That combined with the need for an easy to service - modern - brake setup that can hang with current trend in OE cars and trucks makes it an interesting idea (in my opinion). People who want a bit more reassurance as well for towing stuff down grades would probably find this useful.

 

[Blacksheep Josh]

Thanks for the reply. I am running a 4x4 Explorer. I need to further look at the Explorer front as it has been a while. I think the biggest issue will be in mounting the caliper itself due to the funky slide setup. This is the basic idea for the hat setup:

Pretty common piece.

Don't get me wrong here... the stock Explorer front brakes are actually pretty decent (the pedal feel is pretty good on mine too!). BUT it has always been a pain for me to get them to wear evenly and not stick over time. That combined with the need for an easy to service - modern - brake setup that can hang with current trend in OE cars and trucks makes it an interesting idea (in my opinion). People who want a bit more reassurance as well for towing stuff down grades would probably find this useful.

SpdRcer34 (might be mispelled name, pretty close though), he's put cobra brakes on the front with discs in the rear.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193870

 

[techieman33]

SpdRcer34 (might be mispelled name, pretty close though), he's put cobra brakes on the front with discs in the rear.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193870

he's 2wd though, his setup won't work on a 4x4

 

[CBII]

Very interesting idea. I'd be interested in a set if the costs where between $500-$700 ish. Extra braking power is worth it but in a DD $1200 is way to much. Might as well rebuild the entire front end for that kinda of money.

 

[Blacksheep Josh]

if you're going to replace the calipers up front, you can put the stock calipers on teh rear correct? I know there's more to it then that, but it'd be even better right?

 

[rudypoochris]

SpdRcer34 (might be mispelled name, pretty close though), he's put cobra brakes on the front with discs in the rear.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193870

The Cobra brakes are pretty darn good! The main achilles heal them though is their weight. The Cobra (13" IIRC) front rotor weighs in at around 25lbs per side. Granted - more mass means more heat capacity - at the same time a vented aftermarket 12.2"x1.25" rotor weighs between 9-16lbs and has A LOT more ability to quickly dissipate heat. A ~10.5lb rotor would be the starting point most likely here and that has a pretty decent balance between heat capacity and weight (remember unsprung rotoating mass really hurts performance - this is no race car, but the basic laws of physics don't change). If people want a 16lb heavy duty 12.2" rotor could be used, but I doubt it will be necessary or even prefered. Thats not to say his Cobra brake setup isn't impressive or an improvement. I personally think it is a great upgrade.

Very interesting idea. I'd be interested in a set if the costs where between $500-$700 ish. Extra braking power is worth it but in a DD $1200 is way to much. Might as well rebuild the entire front end for that kinda of money.

This is the kind of feedback I very much appreciate.

Also, I agree - $1200 is way too much for a 12.2" front... once you hit 13" though price will start getting there.

if you're going to replace the calipers up front, you can put the stock calipers on teh rear correct? I know there's more to it then that, but it'd be even better right?

You phsyically could engineer this, but it would be pointless. The front caliper design isn't the best for starts. Secondly your trading away your Ebrake function. Thirdly your proportioning would be all messed up unless you installed a proportioning valve in between the front and rear - might even need two valves due to the large piston area. Not ideal.

For the rears what would work is either the current rear disk swap, or something more potent would be a 12.2"x.81" rear rotor with 4 piston aftermarket calipers. You would lose E-Brake funcationality though which is a pretty big sacrifice, to counter this you would probably run a pinion mount E-brake. That being said, that is a pretty decent amount of modification. One would have to do a bit more thinking about it than I have put into the rear to make a nice brake setup back there. Alternatively a larger OE rotor could probably be found that will bolt onto the disc brake rear axle. Swapping an axle is a pain though and they aren't exactly light, cheap, or necessarily easy to find - so there might be merit in the concept.

 

[wolfnutts]

i seem to remember reading some one put calipers from a ranger 2 piston type on a first gen x buy changing the bracket so you could use those possibly

 

[rudypoochris]

i seem to remember reading some one put calipers from a ranger 2 piston type on a first gen x buy changing the bracket so you could use those possibly

Thanks for the tip! I would much rather run an aftermarket racing caliper though. They are significantly lighter, have much more pad area, and have huge pad selections amongst a ton of other things that put them ahead of typical OE pieces. Something like these:

Additionally I can specify piston bores which will be key in achieving a good brake biasing front to back. I also wouldn't have to worry about quality control buying them from a rebuilder.

 

[CDW6212R]

Look at caliper specs very carefully before buying any parts. The piston area is a critical dimension. The PBR calipers(Cobra, Corvette) are small piston calipers, the brake power will decrease from those. Rotor size affects power, so the Cobra/Corvette parts almost offset and give a little better end product.

It is best to not go smaller in caliper piston area, gaining rotor size helps but the caliper pistons can do more. I have bug brakes on my 98 truck, but due to chosen calipers, the pad size has not gained me any more life expectancy. I need a caliper with significantly larger pads, and those are the really rare aftermarket units, high dollar.

BTW, the stock Cobra 13" rotors are about 19 lbs, I have two sets. My 12.75" x 1.25" two piece rotors are 18 lbs.

Work on the hub and being able to mount a rotor hat onto that. With bigger calipers(pistons) with better pads, you could do well. The key is the choice and price of the hubs and calipers. Good luck,

 

[rudypoochris]

Nice! Thanks for the input and the correction on the weight of the Cobra rotors. The two piece rotors I am planning on using weigh in at ~10.5lbs sans hats. Out of curiosity, what caliper are you using in the above photos? I will probably use a standard aftermarket pad which should have around ~8sqin of area.

 

[CDW6212R]

These are 65-82 Corvette calipers, for $265 complete they were a great deal. The 95+ Explorers have twin 1.75" pistons, the old 65-82 calipers use 1.875" pistons. I changed to Force 10 calipers with smaller 43mm pistons. The OEM calipers were better, a little too large, but good. The hats I have are a couple of pounds, I chose the heaviest rotors for durability. They used to be about $125, last year they were up over $150. Skip holes, they add about $25 to each rotor.

Bigger pads would be a big improvement, with more stopping power they will see more abuse. Let me know if you come across any reasonable caliper with about 45mm pistons, and huge pads. I have room for about 2" of pad width, not much more. Regards,

 

[Blacksheep Josh]

where would one find a two piece rotor that is compatible with a first generation explorer? eventually i'll be upgrading the calipers, just getting rotors figured out now.

 

[CDW6212R]

Well just like 2WD later trucks, the key should be having a hub made which has the proper bearings and/or 4WD hub section in it. There are lots of rotor rings that can be made, with many bolt patterns and other dimensions.

There are as an example bolt on hubs that can be bought for popular older cars, to bolt on nice rotors. That type of hub for say an old Chevelle can be bought for $200 or so. They are made so that nice big rotors can bolt to them that are reasonable in cost. That's the best route to take because the rotor is what wears out, not the hub. You can afford to buy a top level rotor for $150, which will last for 100k to 200k miles.

Take the original factory rotor that came on Explorer XP8's. Those rotors can still be had, for about $900. They are one piece from Alcon, really nice, but they wear out fast. You can't afford to spend that kind of money every two years, plus the pads were about $275 a set.

 

[rudypoochris]

The 12.2" rotors would be non drilled as it is cheaper, more durable, and keeps more mass for added heat capacity (since they are so light any way). As soon as one goes past 12.2" the prices on rotors shoot up by a factor of 2-4 for 12.2 to 13" and beyond for 13"+. Hence why I think 12.2" is ideal for this case. I believe stock is 11.5" or something similar. Granted 12.2" isn't much bigger, but I think the 1.25" width and much larger cooling vents combined with the non sliding calipers and larger pad area (I believe... I need to confirm!!) will make it well worth it. I will look around and think about it - if the 12.2" is too small, I will go for larger diameter rotors. I want it to clear the stock wheels though.

 

[rudypoochris]

where would one find a two piece rotor that is compatible with a first generation explorer? eventually i'll be upgrading the calipers, just getting rotors figured out now.

This is difficult to say... Normal rotor suppliers are Coleman Racing, Wilwood, US Brake, AP Racing, and so forth. It would be kind of pointless though to go find an OE diameter and width 2 piece rotor just to run on the stock caliper. Might as well just buy OE rotors. Its not like you can just do the rotors and then as an after thought do the calipers... well you can... but you will have a stock sized system when your done. Granted if thats what you want - that seems like a fine way to do it. I would think that while your at it you might as well go bigger since it won't cost anything more and you get more braking heat and dissapation capacity.

 

[CDW6212R]

My four rotors all came from Coleman, they produce almost all racing rotors. They can build a set in one day.

BTW, note that with the right calipers you can get fairly large rotors inside stock wheels. My brakes fit inside stock 16" wheels, the stock rotor size is 11" after 94, the early trucks aren't much bigger than that. Old Corvettes had 11.75" rotors inside of 15" wheels. Night,

 

[Spdrcer34]

I am currently @ work on a Big Brake set-up for my 4x4.

It will be interesting to see how YOU accomplish this. I know I have it figured out already.....I just wanna see if your way is better than mine.

Ryan

 

[rudypoochris]

I am currently @ work on a Big Brake set-up for my 4x4.

It will be interesting to see how YOU accomplish this. I know I have it figured out already.....I just wanna see if your way is better than mine.

Ryan

Cool. This is not a priority on my list, but I will look into it. I need to first get my stock brakes so the rears aren't locking up premature (I think the Napa pads are more aggressive than stock, but I will have the drums turned anyway). I am only going for a 12.2x1.25" setup really, so it is quite modest, nothing fancy. If I really feel it is necessary and I can fit it, I might run a 13" or so.