Completed Project Moving-On, No More Kenne Bell Supercharged 5.0

[Blown]

Yes after seeing post I knew Mesozoic would see that Dearborn used to make extended brake line for our rigs.

I managed to quote myself and then tried deleting it above, slow mornin' coffee has not kicked-in yet.

Mesozoic posted, "I'll probably just take them into Hose Power and have them build me a new stainless set using the old fittings."

Very cool, I didn't know that someone did that work. They could make lines from the old fittings. I daily drive this thing, so i ordered some stock replacement lines, can save the old line fittings and send them in to get some braided steel lines made. I assume this is the place?

Bridgestone HosePower - Hydraulic and Industrial Hose Repair - Bridgestone HosePower

hosepower.com

 

[Blown]

Here's your 2000 Explorer 302, using REAC4, Spark Retard for ACT:

I tuned this long ago as I noticed it lost timing under boost! The table value is multiplied by 0.1 so -60 is minus 6 degrees. IAT/ACT gets up to 180 degrees easily under boost and it did as programmed and pulled timing. Notice this Table also adds timing under 40 degrees.

What changed beyond the boost was a move of the IAT from the stock position on the MAF sensor to the intake runner for number 5 cylinder. The IAT must be downstream of the blower to be able to use the table effectively so I moved it. That spot is stock for a F150/Bronc 302 lower manifold which this KB kit was made for.

This is what I have been running:

I changed the "Y" axis to reflect the hotter ACT it senses with boost and the sensor in the intake runner. I don't think there is any reason pull timing below 200 degrees. I am running 22 degrees at max load/boost at 6psi boost. At 200 degrees it pulls 4 degrees getting it down to a safer 18 degrees of timing and at 227 degrees it pulls 6 degrees. I think that will continue to work for me as is with spray.

I was thinking I needed to be able to switch tunes to run safe if I lost the Spray. I am open to suggestions Mesozoic and others for the "Spray Tune" on this. I need to be able to add timing and reduce fuel to get the most out of the spray safely. I will start slow at 6lbs of boost and see what I can get for cooling. Spark Retard for ACT should be close. I think I will be able to add about 4 degrees of additional timing to run 26 at max load/boost. To run safe the EEC needs to add back fuel for cooling if the spray is lost. I should be able to do that with the Function - Open Loop Fuel Multiplier VS ACT.

 

[CDW6212R]

I managed to quote myself and then tried deleting it above, slow mornin' coffee has not kicked-in yet.

Mesozoic posted, "I'll probably just take them into Hose Power and have them build me a new stainless set using the old fittings."

Very cool, I didn't know that someone did that work. They could make lines from the old fittings. I daily drive this thing, so i ordered some stock replacement lines, can save the old line fittings and send them in to get some braided steel lines made. I assume this is the place?

Bridgestone HosePower - Hydraulic and Industrial Hose Repair - Bridgestone HosePower

hosepower.com

I suggest avoiding having SS brake lines made with old fittings. I have had three sets made by a local hydraulics business, all about 15-18 years ago. The first set was made from the original front rubber lines(the caliper fitting), and one of those leaked after about four years. The 2nd set was with all new fittings and they have never leaked on my Mountaineer given the hardest use and almost 100k miles. The 3rd set I think are replacements like the 1st set, but with new caliper fittings. Just be careful of the fittings used, and how they are attached. I think the issue with the one front line was caused by the used fitting.

 

[Blown]

Here is the stock Function - Open Loop Fuel Multiplier VS ACT:

It does nothing in the stock form as it is a multiplier by 1. Above 200 degrees I want it to add fuel. It's a multiplier of air to fuel ratio, so a number smaller than 1 adds fuel. If I can get fuel to 12:1 with cooling spray, then the EEC programming needs to be able to add back fuel to around 11.4:1 to be safe. A multiplier of .95 gets 12:1 back down to 11.4

Here's a first stab at tuning "Open Loop Fuel Multiplier VS ACT":

 

[Blown]

I suggest avoiding having SS brake lines made with old fittings. I have had three sets made by a local hydraulics business, all about 15-18 years ago. The first set was made from the original front rubber lines(the caliper fitting), and one of those leaked after about four years. The 2nd set was with all new fittings and they have never leaked on my Mountaineer given the hardest use and almost 100k miles. The 3rd set I think are replacements like the 1st set, but with new caliper fittings. Just be careful of the fittings used, and how they are attached. I think the issue with the one front line was caused by the used fitting.

Well yah, got yah, I suppose there would be new fittings to be had. I'll have to check-in with Hose Power and see what they got and pricing, maybe a group buy?

 

[97Sandbox]

Well yah, got yah, I suppose there would be new fittings to be had. I'll have to check-in with Hose Power and see what they got and pricing, maybe a group buy?

I'd be in for at least two sets!

 

[Blown]

No braided brake lines for the rear. I got some stock, soft, rear brakes lines coming.


I am going to remove the blower so I can mount the IAT sensor and Spray Nozzles. I want the IAT sensor in the output of the blower. It should stay cooler there, not heat soak as easily and give a more accurate reading.

There is room to drill and tap the blower elbow for two nozzles. I can install and access them on the drivers side corner of the elbow. That aims the nozzles to spray into the intake of the blower so the spray wont be cooling the elbow. I may need/want to run two, staged nozzles, thus two holes. From what I have been reading, the Meth/H2O should flash on the rotors, keeping the blower cooler and cooling the air charge. I'll start with one nozzle and see what I get. Those with less luck were running almost twice the boost I am.

 

[donalds]

Smart choices imo

You can install a 1\4" npt plug in your second nozzle hole until you're ready to use it

The only problem I had was leakage around the nozzle be sure to use liquid thread sealer worked great for me

 

[Mesozoic]

+1 on the liquid thread sealer.

I've not had any problems reusing the old brake line fittings as long as they're in good shape. If someone had overtorqued them and distorted the threads, then yes, absolutely try to get some new fittings. Done correctly however, there is no reason why the original fittings would leak as they were designed to be serviceable and are made of materials conducive to repetitive installation. I have custom lines on several vehicles, including the '89 5.0L Mustang with the KB blower on it and have not had any issues with the work that Hose Power did. Everyone's comfort level varies, however and the tooling used to perform a retrofit on existing fittings is very specific, must be of a certain quality and is generally not cheap...

Regarding the ACT reduction, here's the table I'm using on my blown 5.0L. The EEC in use is an EEC-IV so the table reads the exact amount of spark reduction, not a scalar factor like the EEC-V. This was derived from starting with Decipha's A9L2 baseline and then tuned over a period of years, but it definitely keeps my engine safe. Note that my engine is equipped with a set of ported Edelbrock Victor Jr. heads (aluminum) with oversize valves and 8.5:1 compression, so the spark MBT values will differ from the GT40P. I am also pullied for 15 psi of boost, so you can see the load scale goes up to 200%. Finally, I'm running a 180F thermostat.

 

[Blown]

Smart choices imo

You can install a 1\4" npt plug in your second nozzle hole until you're ready to use it

The only problem I had was leakage around the nozzle be sure to use liquid thread sealer worked great for me

The stuff Snow sent with the kit is funky like almost plastic cement. I suppose you found something you like that is holding-up to the methanol?

 

[Blown]

+1 on the liquid thread sealer.

I've not had any problems reusing the old brake line fittings as long as they're in good shape. If someone had overtorqued them and distorted the threads, then yes, absolutely try to get some new fittings. Done correctly however, there is no reason why the original fittings would leak as they were designed to be serviceable and are made of materials conducive to repetitive installation. I have custom lines on several vehicles, including the '89 5.0L Mustang with the KB blower on it and have not had any issues with the work that Hose Power did. Everyone's comfort level varies, however and the tooling used to perform a retrofit on existing fittings is very specific, must be of a certain quality and is generally not cheap...

Regarding the ACT reduction, here's the table I'm using on my blown 5.0L. The EEC in use is an EEC-IV so the table reads the exact amount of spark reduction, not a scalar factor like the EEC-V. This was derived from starting with Decipha's A9L2 baseline and then tuned over a period of years, but it definitely keeps my engine safe. Note that my engine is equipped with a set of ported Edelbrock Victor Jr. heads (aluminum) with oversize valves and 8.5:1 compression, so the spark MBT values will differ from the GT40P. I am also pullied for 15 psi of boost, so you can see the load scale goes up to 200%. Finally, I'm running a 180F thermostat.

View attachment 453807

I was going to say something along the lines of inspecting the brake ends to make sure they are good to reuse.

Wow, much more retard at 254 than I was proposing. Also twice the boost. I think I'll retard it a bit more. Curious what your max timing is?

 

[Blown]

I thought I might be able to tighten the back glass hinges. I had drilled one hole out previously and thought the rest were in good shape. I hadn't touched it in a few years. I spent my morning chasing down hardware, new drill bits and drilled the other three holes-out for through bolts.

We suddenly got busy, going camping and towing with my rig. It a trip that jsut came together yesterday. A trip I am excited for, headed up to about 11,000' to camp and get reaquainted with some old friends.

I need a couple days to complete the install and tune. The spray install is likely on hold till after the 4th.

 

[Mesozoic]

The Mustang with those Edelbrock Victor Jr. heads runs around 24-25 degrees at WOT, but the starting point for dialing in the spark tables came from the data that Decipha has published on his website. The Spark MBT tables for various heads: https://efidynotuning.com/mbt.htm

 

[Blown]

Thx
I had not seen that but had stock flow for GT40’s and spark from Desktop dyno for the style of heads. I’ll have to check it out.

 

[CDW6212R]

...

I've not had any problems reusing the old brake line fittings as long as they're in good shape. If someone had overtorqued them and distorted the threads, then yes, absolutely try to get some new fittings. Done correctly however, there is no reason why the original fittings would leak as they were designed to be serviceable and are made of materials conducive to repetitive installation. I have custom lines on several vehicles, including the '89 5.0L Mustang with the KB blower on it and have not had any issues with the work that Hose Power did. Everyone's comfort level varies, however and the tooling used to perform a retrofit on existing fittings is very specific, must be of a certain quality and is generally not cheap...
...

To clarify my prior post, the leak I had in one SS brake line was coming from where they joined the new SS line onto the old fitting. That crush connection failed after my guess of three years of severe duty. This pic below is from that 99 Explorer brake swap to the Sport Trac spindles and rotors, plus the SS lines I had made. The fittings on the line there are painted black, the caliper end is the original from the truck.

 

[Blown]

The rig pulled strong up to a 10,253' camp site in the San Juan Mtns with the Tear Drop Camper. I figure we are hauling 1,100 to 1,300lbs with gear. It pulled well, kept cool and brakes well, but mileage dropped to 11mpg!

The new brakes work great! I did notice they need to warm-up. After that they work great, less leg pressure and more braking is available if needed. I rolled down a very steep, switch-back hill in 1st gear from camp for which I needed brakes full time. There was no fade, just great braking. I did smell them heat-up. I hope that was final break-in as they only had a couple hundred miles on them. They also worked great at higher speed when the engine braking was not enough on the steep highway passes. I am happy with the upgrade. I also got peace of mind with a new master cylinder and soft lines. This is from FlattestrRoute.com, there are some steep grades on the route from here in Montrose Co to Telluride CO.

11 MPG! I saw up to the current max of 6lbs of boost to pull a couple of the steeper hills at the speed limit. That puts it in 11.4:1 fuel and it is using some fuel for cooling............. I think it is doing well when you consider the steep grades. The addition of spray will help it pull that much better and with less fuel. I have also ordered some new 36lb Bosch injectors to try to tighten-up the tune. A 36lb injector at 64psi puts out 46lbs. The REAC4 strategy will not support a larger injector without a tune around. The current injectors are too big, rated at 55lbs at 64psi.

 

[CDW6212R]

Congrats on the trip and the new brakes that are getting the job done. It does take several high heat cycles for the brake pads to bed in, they will almost always create some smell the first few times they got hot. After you smell that, then it usually means they are bedded in fully.

 

[Blown]

I found the data sheet for the Bosch injectors I ordered. I did the math and tuned for running them at 64psi. At 39.15psi they are rated at 33.77lbs and at 64psi they rate at 41.2lbs.

I have added 4 degrees timing to my non spray tune when under boost and went from 11.4 to 12:1 fuel under boost. I've got safety tuned in by adding back the fuel and removing timing under High IAT's, 200 degrees and above. I also tuned for more fuel under higher ECT's above 200.

I am back out to play for the the 4th, but am excited to get back to this install. I'll change-out injectors and make sure those are tuned before I add the spray.

Happy 4th!

 

[Blown]

Well, I doubled our little back porch, added a about a 10X10 utilizing 16" step stones to pave it. That took me 4 half days and wiped me out!

Now I am chasing a charging issue. I appears to be an intermittent ground or short. The battery indicator does not always light and the voltage gauge shows no charge. This will be my 4th time pulling the dash crap! I'd like to wire around the dash and utilize my own indicator light..............Curses on Ford for setting these up where you have to pull the instrument cluster to change a bulb or check the circuit!!!

Has anyone wired around the instrument cluster?

I guess I need to begin tracing the wiring from the interior fuse box, got power there. It will start and all works, just running on battery though. Any idea on possible spots to look?

I found this:
"1. check for 14'ish volts at the large lug on the back of the alternator w/engine running. if you not seeing charging voltage here, the alternator is not ON. check for battery voltage at the green & red wire at the alternator plug with the key on. power flows through the BATT light to this wire. when the engine starts the ground for the BATT light is disconnected by the voltage regulator. if your BATT light doesn't work, your alternator will not charge. also, if necessary use a jumper cable to ground the alternator case to the engine block to make sure you don't have a ground problem.

2. assuming you had 14'ish volts at the alternator, next check the voltage at BOTH sides of the mega-fuse. if you don't have the same voltage at both sides of the mega-fuse, replace it.

3. if you have 14'ish voltage at both sides of the mega fuse, start checking wires back to the battery including battery cables and clamps."

 

[Blown]

New charging issue theory: The alternator is overloaded at idle. I put an over drive pulley on it. That increased the charge enough to keep the battery up and the alternator on. The battery indicator now lights-up as it should and the voltage gauge shows good. The voltages at the terminals of the Alternator are good.

Long story short, I have ordered a 220amp alternator and am ready to put the smaller pulley on it if needed. I had previously installed a high amp alt and upgraded the cables. The voltage regulator on it fried and I installed a cheaper 130amp unit. It worked till I started getting the rig out more than last summer in the heat with everything on. It won't keep-up in the summer with all the cooling fans running.

I want to get the charging issue fixed, more work on the back yard and then install some spray. I should have the new alt. by Wed.