1996 2-3 flare, no reverse

[jamieD]

Mike,
Yes it does brake, but when you do 2, the engine wants to rev up and down slightly ±1500- 750 rpms. 1 definitely brakes The valve body was shipped with the separator plate already assembled, so if the check balls are misplaced, that was at the assembler. I torqued the bolts down in 2 steps, first @ 75 inch lbs, the last @ 95 inch lbs. I have 2 torque wrenches and check the bolts by both. What do you think is going on in the reverse modulator? I replaced the two o-rings, is there something else? Sound like something in the valve body is not right doesn't it? The valve body really gave me no solution to the problem. I wonder if something electrical is going on somewhere else.

 

[ragajungle]

The Rev modulator valve is in the VB, but you replaced that... I think before you call Central VB you might be best to OHM out the Solonoids. I cannot for the life of me remember which sticky in the Transmission section there are the ratings for ohms on the solenoids/ maybe it is in glaciers "5r55e vb rebuild thread"??? If one of the - the Reverse one is flaking out it wont generate enough pressure to actuate the Reverse modulator Valve fully causing weak Rev. If the EPC (or main pressure solenoid) is flaking out the same shift issues will result in 1-4 shift flaring.

Also kudos to you for putting in the remote line filter - I would also recommend putting a magnetic strap on it too if you are getting all sortsa powder.



I'll find a thread for you in a minute and post back...to help with the solenoid issue.

 

[jamieD]

CVB said the valve body came with all new solenoids, so could one be bad or maybe a harness issue on my side?

 

[ragajungle]

here are a couple threads to help out:

okay in case you don't know - dont reuse the Bonded Sep Gasket:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292446

here is a great breakdown of the 5r55e VB (very similar to the 4r) courtesy of Brooklyn Bay.
see POST #25
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288840&page=2


I guess check the 5r55e VB rebuild diary thread - it's a read but somewhere in there Glacier991 ohms out the solenoids. Best case scenario you go the the JY and get a few Solenoids and see if any of them work better than yours.

-Mike

 

[ragajungle]

CVB said the valve body came with all new solenoids, so could one be bad or maybe a harness issue on my side?

Could be a harness...get one of those too from the JY. How much did you pay for the VB? The Solenoids are quite expensive $90+ each. If they replaced them you would have paid a hefty price.

 

[jamieD]

They said it was all new, casting from a ±1999 with all new parts and upgrades for $250. This included solenoids and new straps and a different/new separator plate etc. Pretty much remove and replace. Donny is calling me in the morning with some suggestions. He said I may have an internal leak somewhere? The reverse piston under the plate pushes in and out real easy, but when you try to pull it all the way out, it catches. Is it suppose to fall out when you pull the plate off?

 

[ragajungle]

I don't know for sure, I would imagine that the only thing that should matter is that fluid isnt getting past the o-rings. If it does it wouldnt compress against the band correctly or enough. When I took mine out it didn't fall out. It had to be finessed a bit.

I have heard that a worn servo bore is a problem, but that there are repair sleeves available. Maybe that would be a good question the ask Don at CVB.

 

[jamieD]

I'll post again tomorrow after I talk to Donny. I still can't figure out the 2-3 flare, hopefully he'll have an answer. Thanks for the advice.

 

[jamieD]

Just another observation on the no reverse. I can hear a clunk when I put the selector into reverse, but no action. That makes me think the servo is moving correctly, but it is missing whatever it is supposed to make contact with. I read in a post here
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288840&page=2
that the band may move, but why was I getting it sporadically before? I also wonder if the servo is not as long as it needs to be, maybe the end is chipped or broken, but when I look at it, nothing looks chipped or broken. Does anyone know the height of the reverse servo including the stem? I also wonder if the reverse band slipped off? When I did the first gaskets, I had the rear axle on jackstands so the the ex was level. This time when installed the cvb valve body, I just pulled it up on ramps. I am wondering if I this is a pump pressure issue? Seems unlikely since I have manual 1.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Pull out the low/reverse servo, and check the shaft for chips. The next step is to check the low/reverse servo to see if it's broken. Insert a long phillips screwdriver, and see if it has spring action. Use caution not to move it out of position since one side rests on two tabs that are connected to the inside of the case. The viton D ring kit is recommended since it makes a tighter seal compared standard O rings. Did you use a 1/4" drive In/Lb torque wrench on the valve body bolts?

By the way, looking back your earlier post, the 4R55E uses a green band EPC solenoid. Did you check the internal wiring harness with a continuity tester from point to point (bulkhead to internal connections)?

 

[jamieD]

Brooklyn,
I will do the continuity test and the phillips spring action test. I used a brand new 1/4" Harbor Freight inch pound torque wrench that I checked with another lever type torque wrench. I will double check those when I do the suggestions you just made on the reverse servo. I have had the servo in my hands several times and nothing really looked out of the ordinary. The new o-rings did feel tighter than the old ones, but I can order the viton ones if you feel that would make the difference. I did notice on the servo breakdown I got from the dealer that it may be able to be taken apart. Is that true, if so is it necessary? If it has moved off the tabs, can the long phillips put it back? Can one look up in the shaft hole and actually see if it has moved if one had a bright light? Since I had the Ex on ramps only, do you think that may have made it unlevel enough to shift the reverse band? I looked in the valve body that I pulled out and it has the green epc solenoid. I will check the new one I just put in when I check the reverse situation tomorrow. Where does it actually make the bulkhead connection? I was thinking about pulling that connection apart and checking to see if there was any corrosion, but couldn't determine the exact area to check. Do you have any thoughts on the still 2-3 flare? Could the side servos be damaged? I noticed a post somewhere on the 5r55e that someone found this to be a problem. Should I check the continuity on the CVB valve body solenoids? I can't find the values to check it against, do you have a lin? I haven't check that on this one area yet, but this is getting to be like a soap opera. Thanks a bunch for your reply and help!

 

[BrooklynBay]

It's possible to take the servo apart, but it's not recommended.

Try to keep the band aligned. It's still possible to realign the band with the screwdriver if it gets knocked out of position.

The bulkhead connector is the square electrical plug on the outside of the transmission.

Dried out servos could cause a shift flare. The heat from the catalytic converter ruins them after a while. Make sure that there is a heat shield covering them.

 

[jamieD]

Observation:
I checked the continuity of the solenoids in the old valve body by this table:
Resistance: SSA,SSB,SSC,CSS 22-48 ohms (±23-24)
EPC 3.1-5.7 ohms (3.6)
TCC 8.9-16 ohms (11)
All were within range (in parenthesis), but on the low side.

 

[jamieD]

I checked the ohms on the new cvb valve body and they read just a tad bit higher, may 1-2 more. I also noticed on my reverse servo breakdown that there is a spring under the shaft. I don't notice anything unusual about the servo or its shaft. Should the servo shaft be "springy" or "self adjusting"? I put a phillips screwdriver in reverse servo shaft hole and it does feel springy, but the first 1/4-1/2 " maybe, feels loose, after that, it doesn't. What part of the band does the shaft actually push on? The middle part or on one of the outer steps? It is pushing now on one of the steps, the one closest to the engine. I can see it pushing that part, but not the center. The heat shield is in place by the catalytic converter. What else can I check while the valve body is out?

 

[jamieD]

Took the wiring harness out and bench tested. All wires checked out ok. That means to me that the wiring up to the outside of the transmission is ok. I did get the reverse servo to "spring" a little by pushing down(really up since I am on my back) on it. I put it back into the bore and it looked like it was pushing the band, but just a segment of it. I did check to see if the servo would seal, so I pushed it in and put my finger over the port that goes into the rev. servo chamber and it held. It definitely had suction. I still don't know exactly what I am looking for the servo tip to rest on. One of the outer "tabs" or the inner segment? If it is the inner segment, the band has moved. I'll wait until you reply before I start moving it. The band appears to be in several "sections" from the hole I was looking through to it, Maybe double wrapped is a better term. It doesn't appear broke. This seems to me that either the pump is wearing and not putting enough pressure to activate the reverse band or the band is broke and I don't know how to tell it. I noticed on some breakdowns that a large spring is shown (#911), I don't have one.
https://www.wittrans.com/Schematic.aspx?Transmission=A4LD/4R44E/4R55E/5R55E&Schematic=4
The flare is pointing me to check the servos on the passenger side of the transmission, but I'll have to take the catalytic converter off for that. Would the 4r55e servo replacement be similiar to this:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262491&highlight=servo+removal
??

 

[BrooklynBay]

It's a double wrap band. The 4R55E doesn't use a reverse spring like the A4LD.

 

[jamieD]

So my reverse band seems fine, correct? So is the next step to check the intermediate and od servos? I must have a pressure loss somewhere?

 

[ragajungle]

Jamie,
I appreciate that you have been keeping us posted on whats going on! I would suggest tapping into the the line pressure port to confirm what pressure is present. HF sells pressure gauges up to 300PSI. I got one and did it on my Ex last weekend (I also have no Reverse)....

Mike

 

[jamieD]

I don't mind doing that, but HF is a distance away from me. I must have enough pressure to work all the other gears, even reverse sporadically. That leads me to believe my pump is fine. I must have something leaking. The only thing left to test is the servos unless I have missed another angle somewhere.

 

[ragajungle]

What did Don at CVB say about it? All your reverse pressure comes from and goes through the VB.