4.6L V8 coolant loss

[golfpro99]

Registration remains in tact in all 57 states

Regardless of what you call Ford's response; the the point is this is a well known problem on early build 2002 V8 Explorers with all composite intake manifolds.

It is a repair you can do yourself for a lot less than the dealer will charge.

:scratch:

 

[Captj122]

eeprete,
Thanks for the info. My leak was small and even though it was in the shop a couple time for that problem, the dealer "techs" never found anything. After a while I just would check and add fluid as needed. My engine froze at 120k 500 miles from home. Before I left all levels were good and it was running good. Just shows if you have a problem with a vehicle keep on taking it into the dealer and make sure you contact the Corp. so they are aware of it. My fix cost me a new engine.

 

[Sponzbob26]

Guys,
I need some opinions here:
Background - My cylinder heads are found to be all OK - , but the cams are scorched at the journals - . The head shop found 2 cams that are in spec and recommend not using existing cams. I am also concern that the oil pressure will not be sufficient if I use the scorched cams.
Base your opinion on the following: The car has been running with oil and water mixed for some time now. A visual look at the top cams and valve housing when opened up seemed all OK.
I am now wondering if the crank shaft journals will be scorched as well and also wonder if the oil pressure will be affected if it is. The engine is in the car bay and I have no intention to remove it. I have read on the internet that the cam journals will wear out before the crank shaft. If this is true, then I guess I can take a gamble. Any thoughts?

 

[eeprete]

since it's all apart, I'd just change the cams. If you have no intent on pulling the block at this point, it seems to be your only option. I guess it boils down to how much of a gambler are you?

Are you prepared to have all this work complete with the risk of total failure at some point down the road due to water mixing in the oil, even if it's has been running ok?

What is the end goal? Using the vehicle for 10,000 miles? Or are you looking for it to last 100,000? I guess that will partially answer the question.

 

[Sponzbob26]

Hi Eeprete, thanks for your opinion. I decided to remove the oil pan and take out one journal housing from the crankshaft to get a good look. This will give me some indication on the direction I need to go. I have also give the go ahead to the head shop to start reconditioning work.
I am looking for some contacts to purchase a VRS head gasket set. there are not many suppliers in Australia and those who can supply charge a very high price. I have been looking at Ebay suppliers from the states, but some recommendations might be of interest too. Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance

 

[eeprete]

Hi Eeprete, thanks for your opinion. I decided to remove the oil pan and take out one journal housing from the crankshaft to get a good look. This will give me some indication on the direction I need to go. I have also give the go ahead to the head shop to start reconditioning work.
I am looking for some contacts to purchase a VRS head gasket set. there are not many suppliers in Australia and those who can supply charge a very high price. I have been looking at Ebay suppliers from the states, but some recommendations might be of interest too. Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance

I'll use FelPro gaskets only. If you are replacing the intake as well, I'd recommend buying a Ford unit. The aftermarket Dorman intake has its own set of gaskets included and the fit, while some consider better, is slightly different and won't allow for spark plug changes as easily as the ford piece.

 

[rocco123]

Was wondering if you had heicoils installed in the spark plugs holes while the heads were off. That's the time to fix them as the 4.6 is known to blow plugs out.

 

[eeprete]

Was wondering if you had heicoils installed in the spark plugs holes while the heads were off. That's the time to fix them as the 4.6 is known to blow plugs out.

rocco, I did not, no. I had no issues with plug removal or replacement when doing any of my work.

 

[Sponzbob26]

Hi guys! Just a quick update. I end up pulling the engine out. All stripped out and block is ready to go for machining on the top. When I started stripping the crank out I noticed some dark black lines at the second row piston sleeves coming down towards the oil pan. I am now wondering that water was running down there. Not sure but the lines are only in that area.

The crank journals seems quite ok and no scorching other than normal wear which I'm glad about. I'm replacing the bearings too.

Once the block is done I am ready to rebuild!

Regards
Sponzbob

 

[Sponzbob26]

Hi guys!
OK, engine put back together and installed in the car. I finally reached the moment and turned the key for the first time after a full rebuilt. (I did crank it I few times before when the spark plugs were not installed to 'run' the oil through to the cams)
Great news, it started and engine ran smooth. My wife then noticed some smoke and water out of the left side exhaust. I also noticed water leak down the middle of the engine area. Engine has been running for less than 5 min. I opened the oil cap and took off the oil chute. Sadly the oil chute was white and creamy. All this was not a good sign!!!

Next morning after a depressed night, I drained the oil and green coolant water came out first, approx 300ml. I also looked under the engine and noticed signs of leakage on the outside. Sadly I started to take the intake manifold off again. I found coolant water in the valley and also coolant water around the intake gasket only at the let 2 cylinder intakes and also inside the pistons! On close inspection of the manifold, I found a crack at the end port where it sit on top of the coolant end path. Water of course was pushed and pulled into the 2 chambers. After some detailed analysis the whole thing started to make sense as the 2 cylinders are the same ones with the dark black lines inside the engine block. I guess due to the intensive cleaning and removal of gasket material I made the path for leakage so much easier. I never noticed the crack, when torqued down I guess it open up even further. I also question the flatness of the intake manifold to the heads.

With all the threads out there it just talk about the fully moulded manifolds, but the one that I have is the later one with cast aluminium front end. I did not expect that with this manifold and nothing looked suspicious!

I now need to replace the manifold!

 

[rocco123]

Sorry to hear this but at least u now have root cause. Good luck and keep posting

 

[ausdoug62]

Coolant loss mystery..

Hi guys I have a mystery coolant loss in my 4.6 as well just been reading the thread i'm about to change my inlet to a aluminium one after thorough investigation and no real answers took off the tappet covers and I found a yellow sludge!! Been a mechanic for 30 years never seen anything like this has anyone got any ideas? much appreciated.

 

[eeprete]

Ausdoug62, I had very similar symptoms. On mine the loss of coolant continued even after doing head gaskets. Here I am 4 years later and I only just found root cause after of which it appears to be a minuscule crack in the t-stat area of the intake. Smell around the passenger side of the engine compartment.. Is there a smell of coolant?

 

[ausdoug62]

eeprete, I have noticed some staining at the rear of the water pump and I'm going to replace the coolant pipe "o" ring haven't had a real good look at the intake manifold yet but i have bought an all alloy replacement from Speedmaster here in Aus, originally pulled the top end down to replace valve lifters so I'm just doing some "insurance" work on it while it's in bits
Thanks for the tip. I'll let you know how I go..

 

[Sponzbob26]

Hi guys!

Some inspiration from Ausdoug62 thread, I thought to give you all some news on my journey to where I am now with my Explorer 4.6L -

Since my last thread, I made some more discoveries. Additional to my air intake manifold, my actual block was cracked between cylinder 1 and 2 head bolt holes. The crack caused leakage from the coolant port into the engine and also to the outside in the Valley. This was of course after I had it supposed to be ‘crack tested’! I took the engine out again and rebuilt the engine using another short block. Engine was installed and started up. Things did not go my way as after 5 minutes of idling, coolant came out the heads and also enter into the engine. Unfortunately I used a different torque approach (used a fixed torque setting rather the torque to yield, advised I got from an experienced guy) and the heads were not pulled down correctly. I took the covers off and torqued it down again. Since then, I can say with confidence that no water is going into the oil. The oil cap is always clean without any signs of condensation. Oil has been drained and replaced with no water either. However, I am loosing coolant but at a very slow rate. This is puzzling me at the moment.

In summary –
I have rebuilt the engine replaced rings, timing chains + guides and crank shaft bearing journals.
Short block re-bored and machined and water pressure tested – I am confident that the short block is OK.
Cylinder Heads rebuilt with resurfaced tappets and replaced the cam shafts as they were worn.
Installed a new OEM manifold with the aluminium coolant cross over. I am sure the old one can be fixed, but I thought not to do.
Used high temperature gasket sealant additional to the new gaskets for the intake manifold to be sure water/coolant does not leak through from the back dead ends into the manifold or the outside.
Installed clamped stainless steel bands to secure coolant hoses at the back of the engine coolant tube.
I replaced the EGR sensor as this caused the engine light to come on. This is now resolved.
I replaced the front and rear wheel bearings, hubs, brake pads and rotors.
Replaced the rear differential pinion seal
Replaced front and rear differential oil
Also done some minor interior and exterior repairs.

Explorer has now done around 1200 km. I manage to get 14 to 16L/100km driving in town, and 11 to 12 L/100km on open flat road at steady speed of 100km/hr. The car drives very nice and has no unusual noises as many experienced from the differentials.

Hopefully one day I will find that mysterious leak! I have read Eeprete’s and others threads again with the notion that I might pick something up, but to no avail.

Cheers for now

 

[mrnextel]

Hi guys!

Some inspiration from Ausdoug62 thread, I thought to give you all some news on my journey to where I am now with my Explorer 4.6L -

Since my last thread, I made some more discoveries. Additional to my air intake manifold, my actual block was cracked between cylinder 1 and 2 head bolt holes. The crack caused leakage from the coolant port into the engine and also to the outside in the Valley. This was of course after I had it supposed to be ‘crack tested’! I took the engine out again and rebuilt the engine using another short block. Engine was installed and started up. Things did not go my way as after 5 minutes of idling, coolant came out the heads and also enter into the engine. Unfortunately I used a different torque approach (used a fixed torque setting rather the torque to yield, advised I got from an experienced guy) and the heads were not pulled down correctly. I took the covers off and torqued it down again. Since then, I can say with confidence that no water is going into the oil. The oil cap is always clean without any signs of condensation. Oil has been drained and replaced with no water either. However, I am loosing coolant but at a very slow rate. This is puzzling me at the moment.

In summary –
I have rebuilt the engine replaced rings, timing chains + guides and crank shaft bearing journals.
Short block re-bored and machined and water pressure tested – I am confident that the short block is OK.
Cylinder Heads rebuilt with resurfaced tappets and replaced the cam shafts as they were worn.
Installed a new OEM manifold with the aluminium coolant cross over. I am sure the old one can be fixed, but I thought not to do.
Used high temperature gasket sealant additional to the new gaskets for the intake manifold to be sure water/coolant does not leak through from the back dead ends into the manifold or the outside.
Installed clamped stainless steel bands to secure coolant hoses at the back of the engine coolant tube.
I replaced the EGR sensor as this caused the engine light to come on. This is now resolved.
I replaced the front and rear wheel bearings, hubs, brake pads and rotors.
Replaced the rear differential pinion seal
Replaced front and rear differential oil
Also done some minor interior and exterior repairs.

Explorer has now done around 1200 km. I manage to get 14 to 16L/100km driving in town, and 11 to 12 L/100km on open flat road at steady speed of 100km/hr. The car drives very nice and has no unusual noises as many experienced from the differentials.

Hopefully one day I will find that mysterious leak! I have read Eeprete’s and others threads again with the notion that I might pick something up, but to no avail.

Cheers for now

Any updates? I have coolant in my oil too, I'm very curious, the info is invaluable!!

found some other issues, but way later, that may have been my fault.

Have you tried a sealer since your last rebuild?

 

[Sponzbob26]

Any updates? I have coolant in my oil too, I'm very curious, the info is invaluable!!

found some other issues, but way later, that may have been my fault.

Have you tried a sealer since your last rebuild?

Any updates? I have coolant in my oil too, I'm very curious, the info is invaluable!!

found some other issues, but way later, that may have been my fault.

Have you tried a sealer since your last rebuild?

Hi, yes I have added engine block sealer to see if that stop the minor coolant loss. It helped and I now only have to top up about 200-300ml every 3 months or so.