4 Runner vs. Explorer

[Stephen]

To say, however, that the Japanese build upon much tighter and more stringent tolerances is a belief I have learned to be false. Stephen, why are you badmouthing the product this entire forum is built upon? If you think American products are sooooo inferior, then why just sit here on this forum and attack individuals that state their pride in the product that is of the primary focus?.

You're taking this too personally, I'm not attacking anyone. First of all, have you ever been to Japan or done any research into Japanese culture or the way their businesses run? Japan is a "collectivist" culture where we are an "individualist" culture. Totally opposite sides of the spectrum. Japanese do things as a group, they don't think of themselves as individuals like we do. They view themselves as an extension of a unit. If you ask a Japanese worker who they are they would say something like "I am a part of team B from Toyota's manufacturing group. If you ask an American who they are they'd say something like "I'm John, I'm a good friend, a hard worker" etc etc. Its just two totally different cultures. Japanese factories also employ total immersion management where every worker knows how to do every job. This makes them more efficient where in America every worker knows how to do their job and nothing else. Japanese factories always move as a unit, they excercise together, spend all their time together. Workers seldom have much of any contact with people who DON'T work at the factory. They work stretches of 7 days a week while Americans don't make the factory their focus, they're there to put food on the table.

One way isn't neccisarily better than the other, but one drawback for the American style of culture is that by its very nature it is incapable of producing products at the speed or at the quality of a factory in a culture like Japan's. We're just not as "designed" for that type of work. That IS what Bush is saying about jobs of the 21st century by the way, he's just not as blunt as I am. He thinks America should excel at educated jobs, do you think educated workers are going to be building cars? No.

Its not being patriotic to blindly think we're the best at doing everything, that does America a disservice not a service. We may be the best country to live in but our country does not excel at everything. The things we're not so good at we either have to work on, or we have to decide to shift our focus away from and onto something we are good at.

 

[RedEB]

I understand where you are coming from now. I'm not sure if I completely agree, but I can certainly understand where you are coming from. In my family, we always identify with our jobs and our quality, so maybe I was raised differently. I was always taught to do something to the best of my abilities and never do anything half-assed.
As for Japan's culture, it is a horizontal hiearchy as opposed to the vertical one we use here in the states. There technique is certainly unique.
BTW- Bush drives a Ford super-duty.

 

[Stephen]

But Dick Cheney drove a Lexus LS400 before they were elected

 

[RedEB]

Huh, I didn't know that.
Better yet, why get an explorer or a 4runner: take a look. I'm still partially submerged in a pool of drool.
http://images.cyclones-world.net/05_roush800.jpg

 

[dtl 2k2 sport]

Okay,, red eb, nice ride!, Lets all take a breath and cool down! Stephen my dad loves the sequoia, (sp) still! And has kept the 99 eddie b explorer as well. I work at a toyota dealer for some fun money 2-3 times a week, and the fit and finish of the cars really arent that major / step above domestic cars. And not sure cause i personally have never owned a non american car, but arent the parts usually more expensive? Sense where talking about Lexus, and quality, I have noticed that FAKE wood is starting to show up more and more. Even on the new Eddie B explorer which i'm still not totally positive if i like it, they throw the glue on wood on it. In the past I know that it would eventually peel off, what do you all think of putting wood accents in cars /suv's??

 

[RedEB]

Actually dtl 2k2 sport, that is my car!!! (in about ten years... ) I agree, I 'm not sure about the overall longevity of wood accents, particularly in humid or excessively hot environments. I would think that any adhesive would be prone to delamination should the temperature and humidity bear down on it. My dad has walnut accents on his 99 limited and it looks very classy with no discernible loss of adhesion, but I'm sure that the adhesive will give one day.
Wood accents look very nice and add a classy touch to a vehicle, but I also like my plain X interior as I think it looks very clean and uncluttered. I'm torn on the issue.

 

[Stephen]

I work at a toyota dealer for some fun money 2-3 times a week, and the fit and finish of the cars really arent that major / step above domestic cars.

Couple reasons for that:

Mainly because almost all Toyotas sold in the US are made in the US now. I'm not totally sure offhand but I think only the Prius and the Spyder are still made in Japan. They're made by the same worker, so the wuality of their construction is similar. If you sit in a Toyota and then a Lexus you can immediatey tell the difference even if the two are similar in price because the Lexus is made in Japan.

Domestic cars have made LEAPS and BOUNDS in the quality department over the last 3 years or so. Fords of today are put together far better than Fords of yesterday. GM and Chrysler have more work to do.

And not sure cause i personally have never owned a non american car, but arent the parts usually more expensive?

Not really. Since Toyotas are built here the parts are here and don't really cost more than domestic parts. Now Lexus parts are abhorrently expensive...

As for wood, all Lexuses still have real wood accents. I have noticed that carmakers have started sticking fake wood everywhere they can and I think it looks terrible. Real wood looks great and adds a lot of warmth but fake wood looks cheesy. Plain interior is much better. Take the Explorer for instance when they added that fake wood in 99, the previous models looked much better. As for adhesion it isn't a problem mainly because the wood they use on cars with real wood is only a very thin veneer that is attatched to a plastic mold and backing.

 

[thewishkah]

My G/f just picked up a 2004 4 runner she is happy with it she got it for 17,000 with 20k miles on it still looks show room lets see how it holds up