A4LD Swap option from Advance Adapters

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Phase 1 complete

Out with the old.

And yes Rick, I can't wait. The funny thing though is I won't even be the first to drive it, my dad is picking it up when its done and I have to wait until August to even see it. That's okay though, I stil want it done soon.

 

[SteveVB]

Looks Good Kevin,

What about the torque converter? Is it a 700r unit, or something special with a 4.0 pilot, and bolt pattern , and a 700r outputshaft?
How is your TC going to be set up- stall speed, lock up etc?

Im waiting anxiously - my rebuild is not lasting as l9ong as I wanted - had the pukes today and seems to be running hot. So I anxiously await each post.

Thanks

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

I a going with a low stall torque converter, better for the slow sport of offroading, with the exception of high rpm runs through mud. The tranny is going to use a standard 700-R4 torque converter and it will be mated to the stock 4.0L flexplate/flywheel with some sort of sandwich adapter

 

[410Fortune]

DUDE!!!!!!!!!!


Okay what about the starter????

That tranny looks awesome, what is the timeframe for AA to complete the torquew converter adapter, and output shat adapter. Also is there an adapter going between the engine and the transmission bellhousing?


I am curious about the length of the 700 compared to the a4ld, I assume AA is making it so the t case will be in the exact same location when all is said and done...


So I also assume the engine to bellhousing and sandwich adapter from AA will allow you to retain the 4.0L starter in its stock location???

THats a hell of a project, but the end result should KICK ASS over the A4LD..........

Does the 700 also use a 7 position cable shifter???? (P,N,R,D,OD,2,1) or a 6 position with a OD button????

Will the 4.0L computer control the OD shift and converter lock up like on the A4LD or is that gone?
I can see it would be possible to covert the truck to a 5 speed computer with some slight wiring changes, then use a stand alone tranny controller for the 700...

Man this conversion sure raises alot of questions....and I thought I went through alot going from a 5 speed to a A4LD!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

It will be using the srock 4.0L starter which will mount to the adapter plate betwen the tranny and engine. The t-case will be in the stock location and they are looking at a June to July release date. Did I get them all?

 

[410Fortune]

Nope.,...heheh I editied it, the more I think about it the more questions I have...

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

The stock ford column shifter won't work without fabing up smalle parts so AA is going with an aftermarket floor shifter. I will probably play around and try to get the column shifter to work.

The 4.0L Computer problems haven't been thought up yet, but the 700-R4 uses a TV cable to control all shifting, including overdrive. That is currently being looked at by bowtie overdrives who have an upper intake and a throttle body that they are working on getting the proper bracketry for the proper geometry of the TV cable to ensure it shifts properly.

Torque converter lockup will be controlled externally and can be done several ways. Bowtie overdrives makes a kit that sells for $70 as do other aftermarket companies that automatically lock the torque converter in OD and also has a manual switch to lock it in other gears.

The 700-R4 is not a computer controlled unit. As stated above, it uses the TV cable to control shift points as that is what controls the line pressure of the tranny. The A4LD is also not computer controlled with the exception of the torque coverter lock up and the shift into OD. Using an auto computer will not effect engine performance, but will cause a constant check engine light. I plan to switch to a manual computer just so I can have my check engine light working properly. The wiring for that is simple as there is minimal changes that need to be done.

 

[410Fortune]

Right. For the wiring you will have to just modify the jumper on the Ford tranny harness, for the Neautral safety circuit and the ignition wires, that should be it.
The 5 speed computer will still use the reverse light feed, but you will ahve two wires in your harness that dont need to be there, the 2-3 shift (OD) and the converter lock up.

Ford simply used a jumper wire in the 5 speed tranny harness to "loop" the neautral safety (goes to clutch switch instead) and the ignition wire (just loops).

I had to modify my harness from a 2.9L to a 4.0L, then from a 5 speed to an auto, so if you need any help just email me...

Also didt your stock kick down cable mount to the gas pedal, or does your Ex go to the throttle body?

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

My kick down cble for the A4LD came off the gas pedal. I will have to check to see if the 700-R4 even uses one or if that is also a function of the TV cable.

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Okay 410, I'm going to pick your brain a little. I know the only functions controlled by the computer are the 3-4 shift and the torque converter lockup. My question is, Is there any feed back from the tranny to the computer? In other words, does the computer know if the tranny has actually done what the computer told it or does it just assume that tranny is operating properly?

Also, I know there are 2 plugs on the tranny. One is the Park/Neutral switch and the other is the control features. If we disconnect the controll features, does it turn on the check engine light or does it just not enable the OD or torque converter lockup? Answering this question would answer the first.

I just sent the enginneer at AA an e-mail asking if there was a way that we can figure out if the stock computer can controll the torque converter lockup and if we can fool it into thinking there is still an A4LD there.

 

[410Fortune]

Okay.

A4LD locks up the converter based on signals from the TPS, Speed Sensor, and I think thats it.

The EEC controls the A4LD through TWO wires, thats it.
a - signal to the 3-4 shift solenoid (bluew/orange?)
a - signal to the converter lock up solenoid (red/green?)

The other wires are:
(purple)Reverse indicator feed to EEC
Neautral safety (there are a couple depending on auto/manual, pink and red/white I believe)
RED = power feed for solenoids/sensors

Now the 5 speed truck has all the wires EXCEPT for the two solenoid feeds.

The wiring AFTER the tranny plug is slightly different with a 5 speed, regarding the neautral safety.

I believe there is also a wire for the ELECTRIC SHIFT 4x4 signal to EEC as well....


No the computer does not know if the tranny has done the function, it just knows if the solenoid is connected or not, meaning if your 3-4 shift solenoid goes bad = CEL I believe because the circuit is not completed??? II am not sure, but there is only 1 wire for each solenoid.........

I can send you a wiring diagram showing the necessary changes to sticka 5 speed EEC in there. I ran my A4LD equipped truck with a 5 speed EEC for a while, because my auto computer was ruined by the exhaust shop, I had to battle them to pay for a new one, so I drove it for weeks with teh 5 speed EEC, no CEL but also no OD and no lock up.....

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Okay, correct me if I am wrong. if you were to disconnect the round plug that I think has 5 wires on it, the other is two wires and is your neutral safety switch, the computer would turn on the check engine light because it isn't seeing the 3-4 solonoid. However, the truck would still run and drive but wouldn't shift into 4th or lock up the torque converter. Does this sound right?

Also, what is sent back to the the EEC to tell it the 3-4 solenoid is there? Would it be possible to either ground it out or send a voltage to cancel out the EEC from turning on the check engin light?

 

[410Fortune]

i DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE.

It is possible to make the EEC think the tranny is hooked up, in fact the only time you get a CEL is if the wire goes nowhere.......

The Neautral safety wiring is a little funky, basically one of the wires goes from the main harness, through the round 8 pin plug, into the tranny harness and splices into another wire, this is because with the 5 speeds there is a N safety AND a clutch position wire, so both wires are still there in the main harness, but only onme actually makes it to the tranny with an auto. Does that make sense??

I know the lock up converter functions are based on reading from the engine's sensors and the position of the kick down cable, not from tranny sensors,
SO knowing this, as LONG AS THE 700 uses some sort of 12v signal (either + or-) it would be possible to use the stock EEC to control the 700's lock up.....

If it is a - signal then you are good to go, as long as the TV cable is working exactly right.......if it si a + signal then you would have to wire in a relay as well.......

Just eliminate the 3-4 shift CEL and BLAMO! keep your stock computer!!)

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Originally posted by 410Fortune
Just eliminate the 3-4 shift CEL and BLAMO! keep your stock computer!!)

That is esentially what I am trying to accomplish, but I need to figure out how to disable or bypass that 3-4 shift CEL. My problem is, I live in Washington, my Ex is in CA at AA and I am in Norfolk VA with no access to all my info or truck.

I want to try and incorporate this into the torque converter lockup so I can use the switch to lock up the torque converter in other gears. May come in handy when idling down hills. Look at the diagram and then imagine the torque converter input from the EEC coming in on the pin 30 of the relay.
http://www.700r4.com/tech/tcc/TCCdeenergizedbosch.htm
What I need to know though is what the voltage is coming in off the EEC for the torque converter lock up to see if matches the 700-R4's and also back to the check engine light, what goes back to the EEC(voltage) for the 3-4 shift solenoid. After that, I thinnk we have it.

 

[410Fortune]

the torque converter lock up is nothing more then just a 12v - signal (as far as I know, almost all signal pins on the EEC are)

Yes it is possible to lock up the converter in 3 and OD, I dont think you can force it to lock up in 2, because not only does it rely on the signal from the EEC but the tranny vavle body will only allow it to lock up in 3 and OD, that is my understanding of the A4LD.
SO that doesnt mean you cant make the 700R4 lock up in 2 with a wiring switch, if the tranny itself is capable of lock up in 2 then it can be done.

I believe all we have to do to eliminate the 3-4 CEL would be to ground the signal wire, but LET ME CHECK INTO THAT.

Now it should help you to have a complete wiring diagram of both the 5 speed and auto wiring harness for your truck...let me work on that (problem is the book pages are like 18" x 24" so I have to make copies here at work and mail them to you, cant scan that big)

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Sounds good 410. I appreciate the help as does AA.

 

[410Fortune]

well you know they wanted Brett's help with this conversion too, Brett and I have figured this stuff out together..........

I know AA will appriciate my business when my A4LD goes out (if ever, I had it custom built by the best damn Ford tranny guy I know of) that is if I dont go five O........

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Once I get back to WA, I have a manual to A4LD swap to do as well in a ranger that belongs to 90ranajo here. I did it the easy way though and went to a junkyard and grabbed the section of wiring harness that goes to the auto tranny and a couple of other sensors. As we both lready know, the main wiring harness is the same, manual or auto, all I have to do is figure out how to bypass the clutch tripple function switch and ensure the park/neutral safety switchis incorporated. I am not sure if that is a function of that section of harness or not.

 

[410Fortune]

hehehe the automatic trucks have a plsitci 3 way jumper clip that clips right into the clutch switch harness, you unplug the clutch switch and plug in the jumper.

I have this in my truck.

Also grab the clutch block off plate from the firewall and the kick down cable off the same truck.

Also pay attention to the kick down cable bracket on the A4LD itself, there are many different versions.

Here is how I did mine, oh and I had to go back and put the two shift solenoid wires back into my harness because I stripped them out along with all the other 4.0L stuff I didnt need when I did my 2.9L conversion....

Rebuilt entire wiring harness it was time anyways, I had a few trial and errors from when I did the original harness, added auto tranny wires

donor was a 93 Explorer A4LD, custom built with improvement to valve body, custom converter, etc....

Shift linkage in A4LD was changed out with a shift lever from a 86 Ranger A4LD

Floor shifter from a 84 BII 2wd including BELL CRANK assembly and linkage
Floor shifter block off plate

clutch block off plate
A4LD tranny wiring harness
93 Explorer A4LD computer, no EGR

Hayden class A motorhome tranny cooler

Rubber tranny cooler lines, high tempature.

I cut the 4 ends off of the feed and return metal tranny cooler lines from the donor Explorer, this allowed me to use a simple flare tool and thread the fittings into the radiator and tranny, yet run rubber tranny cooler lines with hose clamps! Works awesome!

Also the floor shifter from a 84-85 2WD BII and bell crank assembly should work perfect on an Explorer as well, as long as you get the appropriate shift lever in the tranny case and the right kick down cable and bracket......

 

[90ranajo]

The TV cable on the TH700-R4 controls every thing on the tranny. From shift firmness to kick-downs, and if set up properly it will perform a 2 gear down shift.

Hey Mac, how about something like this for the Ranajo? http://home.off-road.com/~jricher/images/white ranger/Oct02/bottomedside.JPG