Bkennedy's SAS and Rebuild Thread

[BKennedy]

Drove the Explorer for 30 minutes the other day, about 45 minutes today and I got the death wobble again. Just happened while I was going up a grade at about 50 MPH. Driving nice and smooth down the road like usual, then violent shaking until I pull over. Jam nut is still tight.

The only thing left in the front suspension is the shocks. I've just never heard of coil overs causing death wobble. I'm going to call a local place that is well known for rebuilding coil overs (Downsouth Motorsports) on Monday and see if they think they could be causing this.

This has gotten me stumped. I've had this suspension for almost 10 years and it's always been very stable on the highway.

 

[donalds]

Do the tires themselves have uneven ware like cupping

 

[BKennedy]

Do the tires themselves have uneven ware like cupping

Not at all, wearing quite smoothly.

After it happened once today, it did not happen again in the 25 minutes it took to get back home. After it happened, the suspension feels stiffer and less stable, almost like it's trying to start the wobble.

 

[410Fortune]

could be a bad shock for sure....that's the thing w the death wobble.......... so hard to fix

 

[BKennedy]

I'm looking at replacing my cheap Viper coil springs since I am going to take the shocks for a refresh and to see if there is anything wrong with them.

I can't for certain remember the spring lengths. I know the weights are 250/300 which I like just fine. Flexes great and rides a little firm on the highway. I have @Stic-o checking prices on Eibach springs. Does this sound right for lengths for 14" travel coil overs with a dual springs setup? 12"/250 uppers, 16"/300 lowers. I am fairly sure the two springs should equal double the travel length with the lower being longer. I think I got it right but can't find it in my reference paperwork and the markings are rubbed off the springs. I might go a little lighter, but only if Eibach makes them in 1/4 increments.

EDIT: I located markings on one of the upper springs. Its 12x250. The lower measured out to a little under 16", so I'm going to have to go with that. New springs will be 1) 12x225 and 16x275 if they make them, if not then 2) 12x225 and 16x300. I actually have a triple rate set up. The springs are too heavy to get the proper preload but I like a firmer ride, so there are small flat tender springs on the top to keep a little pressure on them when unloaded.

 

[410Fortune]

picture of your coilovers?

That is alot of spring a 14" and a 16"
Is this a 10" or 12" stroke shock?

 

[BKennedy]

14"

 

[BKennedy]

More crawling around underneath the Explorer, the bushings between the radius arms and the axle mounts were snug, but not tight. I tightened them up.

I'm going to pull the shocks and rebuild them or have them rebuilt. Called Radflo, their customer service is outstanding. Talked to a tech for 30 minutes. He seemed like he was really trying to solve my problem. We went through a bunch of stuff and kept coming back to the shocks. He said he has not had any reservoir coil overs do what I'm describing, but has had some non reservoir IFP's get worn and lock up intermittently. Says my shocks are due for a rebuild in any case. I got Stic-O working on new coil springs.

On another issue, I think my wife has finally lost her mind. She asked me when I was going to stop spending money on the Explorer. It has to be early onset dementia.

 

[410Fortune]

OMG really? Did you tell her "honey, stage III, has just begun!!"

 

[BKennedy]

OMG really? Did you tell her "honey, stage III, has just begun!!"

It would be more like Stage XVIII.

Heading up to drop the shocks off at Radflo. They said if I drop them off, they will ship them back in a week or two. They are very nice people. You know when you call someone at customer service, and you can tell they are engaged in the conversation and / or issue? That's how it is there. When I was trying to get information from Down South Motorsports over the phone, I could tell they were uninterested at best. Radflo makes an assortment of shock spring sliders machined out of Delrin so they fit a little tighter on their shocks. They are expensive, but it's a one-time purchase. I'm going to get a set of long/long sliders to try and help keep the springs off the shock body. Having a quality set of new springs should help with that also. The tech said it's the 2.0's with longer travel and longer springs that rub.

 

[BKennedy]

I'm in the parking lot at Radflo. They got the engineer to talk to me. Very cool. He says it might be something internal that has failed. I asked what it would cost to revalve them. It's part of the rebuild service so they are going a little bit lighter with compression. This is all after speaking with the engineer about my issues, spring rates and valving. Very cool.

The lower springs became unobtanium and Eibach was estimating a in stock date of December. I got some suggestions from Radflo. @Stic-o told me one of them was out. I checked the other supplier when I got home, and they had two in stock so I bought them. Sucks for me I didn't realize I drove right past the place on the way home and could have saved a little in shipping. Stic-o is ordering me the uppers. I went with 225 pound springs instead of 250 for the uppers this time. Probably won't be very noticeable.

 

[BKennedy]

UPS dropped the lower springs off today. McKenzie Performance might have possibly have been the only shop in the country that had a pair of 16" 2.5" 300lb springs I needed. They had silver, wanted red but not sure if Eibach makes them. Color becomes inconsequential when their not available. The boxes are stuffed full of sticky packing peanuts.
McKenzie's seem like a solid company. They are old school and actually have stock instead of drop shipping everything.

Stic-O got me the uppers in red, should be here tomorrow. Just waiting on Radflo to call about the shocks.

Radflo suggested maybe that shaking is coming from the rear suspension. Not the engineer, but the phone guy who admittedly knows shocks but not suspensions. I don't see how leaf springs could ever do that violent up and down shuddering. Especially a heavy leaf pack like I have.

 

[BKennedy]

Uppers showed up today, thanks again @Stic-o

Little bling poking out between the tires and fender to catch the eye and help people notice that its a 1st Gen Explorer on 14" coil overs.

The springs that came straight from Eibach were not packed in packaging peanuts nor were the boxes sealed. McKenzie's Performance must do that while they are checking to make sure the box and contents are correct. Boxes were sealed with McKenzie's Performance tape.

 

[BKennedy]

While I wait for the shocks, lets get back to the death wobble:
Not really a wobble or side to side shuddering as far as I can tell, it's more of a up and down fairly violent shaking.

Is there anything in the drivetrain that could cause that (I don't see how without a lot of accompanying noise)?

Is there any possibility its coming from the body/frame (again, don't see how)?

Is there any part of a leaf sprung suspension that could cause that (again, don't see how)?
Rear is a custom leaf pack of 10 thicker than OEM springs and military wrapped. Shocks are Rancho 9000's. When I rotated the tires, I checked for any play in each axle end and there is none.

It's not steering because the steering wheel and column shakes up and down with the rig, it doesn't turn the wheel. All rod ends are tight and relatively new. All jam nuts are tight. No play in the steering box, and it's a fairly new RedHead.

 

[410Fortune]

how are your rear shocks? no leaky seals?
tire balance has been ruled out?

It has to be the axle if the drivetrain was moving up and down you would know it feel it in the floor

 

[BKennedy]

Rear shocks look good, I rotated the tires

 

[Stic-o]

I just want to say, you may have a decent older pair, but Rancho's are absolute garbage now. Lots of issues from the Pandemic era with them. I really hope they can turn it around. However the way they keep cutting costs and closing US factories, it doesn't look good.

 

[BKennedy]

I just want to say, you may have a decent older pair, but Rancho's are absolute garbage now. Lots of issues from the Pandemic era with them. I really hope they can turn it around. However the way they keep cutting costs and closing US factories, it doesn't look good.

I'm eventually going to upgrade to a pair of Radflo 10" travel reservoir shocks. Might be sooner than later, but talking with Radflo, they are 14 weeks out.

I have a fairly large budget, or no budget really, for the Explorer. The front shock rebuild and spring replacement is costing me about $700, so I'm really hoping I don't need to throw any more money at it for a few months.

The Rancho 9000's I have already had a minor issue. I can't turn the dampening knobs up unless I turn them down all the way first. Then, I still have to wiggle them around to get them to move up over notch six of nine. I hear you can remove those knobs, clean and lube them, so I will be doing that before it gets back on the road.

I don't have a whole lot more I want to do that is do-able in my current garage. Most of it has to wait for the Arizona house to be built.

Rear Radflo shocks (should greatly improve ride and performance)

Raflo air bumps up front, move the Daystar Stinger bumps to the rear

NWF iBox doubler (because doubler)

Eventual engine swap to a GM 3800 V6 supercharged (L32 SIII). I already have the engine lined up, one of my Arizona buddies has four of them in his shop he pulled out of junked cars, and says I can have one because he is tired of moving them around. Says he has the wiring harnesses to go with them. As soon as the Arizona house is built, I'll relieve him of one of them, so when I get tired of moving it around, I will stuff it in the Explorer. 285HP, lots of aftermarket support, very reliable, should fit without any modifications to suspension.

 

[Stic-o]

I have Rancho knobs at work if you need them. There is also a guy out there who makes a special key to make it easier to turn them.

 

[410Fortune]

Rancho is owned by Monroe
My "new" 9000's are holding up BUT the shafts did pit and rust in the first few months, had me questioning if Rancho is still a good shock..... thanks for sharing!! Poor BII needs KINGS
I have had Bilstein, Fox, and Sway away coilovers and a couple sets of kings now.......there is no comparison, the kings are built about twice as stout as the others.......