Cam position sensor questions...

[Hunter66]

AS I came across this thread I checked and confirmed I have the dreaded CHIRPing in my 99 Mountaineer 166K sheeez.

Where is the post so I can even locate the sensor????? Sounds like an EZ FIX.

 

[rwenzing]

If you have a 5.0, the CMP/Synchronizer is below the coil pack bracket and next to the t-stat housing, right where the distributor would be on other SBF's. If you have a 4.0 SOHC, then you have a different type of CMP sensor and the chirp info in this thread does not apply.

 

[Hunter66]

I have the 5.0 guzzler, this is gonna be fun might have to wait a week or two, too busy at work right now.Guess Im lookin at a couple hrs work here looks like if it goes smooothly.

 

[rizzjc]

Hi Joe, it's not that big of a job once you understand what's involved. Certainly no bigger than the egr valve replacement, (in my opinion), that you helped me with a few weeks ago. BTW I found it easier to remove the upper intake manifold to do that.
My truck threw a code which was what started me on this cmp thing. Mine didn't make any noise. The stator was just obliterated. Ran good still lousy mileage. Haven't had the new cmp synchro long enough yet to tell if the mileage has improved, but it runs great. A mechanics stethiscope might help find the chirp if you can get it to happen at the right time.
GR

Awww, geez! Now you and jt had to go point out all of the crap I've done to my truck since being initiated. : I'm getting tired though. Some days I feel close to throwing in the towel and giving up on it. On the other hand, two posts in this thread, and the first time I start the truck since posting, and no chirp. So, I guess I continue to drive it, and wait until it comes back. The chirp is just one of a number of things that I either am not ready to dive into right now (header gaskets shot - i.e. TMH, and some really weird "bumps" I feel when driving).

Thanks for the encouragement though. It helps. Fortunately my 16 year old Lexus SC400 doesn't give me any problems yet.

 

[5.0]

If you end up buying the tool-I'll buy it from you when you are finished. I had to borrow one. Now that there is another 98 in the household I am just playing the waiting game for my turn here again.

No problem, I'm sure something can be worked out.

I ordered a new sync from Ford - $140 and should be here in a day or two.

A couple more questions:
Is the sensor (black plastic cap) on the Dorman sync alright to use, or does it have quality issues as well?
Is the alignment tool with the Dorman sync the same quality as the OTC tool?

My two choices now are:
1. Buy Dorman sync to get sensor/cap and tool
2. Buy Delphi sensor/cap and OTC tool



.

 

[GeorgeR]

No problem, I'm sure something can be worked out.

I ordered a new sync from Ford - $140 and should be here in a day or two.

A couple more questions:
Is the sensor (black plastic cap) on the Dorman sync alright to use, or does it have quality issues as well?
Is the alignment tool with the Dorman sync the same quality as the OTC tool?

My two choices now are:
1. Buy Dorman sync to get sensor/cap and tool
2. Buy Delphi sensor/cap and OTC tool



.

The dorman alignment tool is plastic. The nice thing about it is that the tool has a handle molded into it on top. That makes it easier to install and adjust the synchro as necessary. I also have the OTC tool and it is much better made, but the dorman will do the job and I used it successfully. Also the OTC tool is made in Taiwan.
I can't be objective about the sensor that comes with the dorman synchro. It may or may not be equal in quality to the Delphi. That being said, most of the after market devices are made in china these days, especially the electrical stuff.
A sensor came with the Cardone (NAPA) rebuilt Ford synchro that I used, that is what I installed using the dorman tool. Then I returned the dorman synchro along with the tool and sensor that came with it.
If I were you, I would wait until the synchro arrived as it may come with a sensor.
Lotsa luck
GR

 

[5.0]

How much oil do I use and where/how do I apply it to the new synch before I drop it in?


All of the parts came in, now the fun part... going outside when it's 18* and sleeting/freezing rain to work on this thing.

Ford synch - $140
OTC tool - $48
Delphi sensor - $40

 

[rizzjc]

Ouch! $228?! Is that a discount price? BTW, do you have the real name or part number? I can't find any of those parts searching on fastpartsnetwork.com.

Sorry about the weather. Hopefully it's quick and easy, and you don't lose any fingers from frostbite.

 

[5.0]

All prices are + tax yet

It's possible to buy the parts a little cheaper, but I wanted them fast and bought what was in stock. I don't mind paying more money for the Ford part because from what I've read, the Chinese part isn't near the quality of the Ford part.

These are for my '97 with a 5.0. Other years may be different. Part numbers:
F7TZ-12A362-AC = Ford Mortorcraft synchronizer $140 (Ford dealer)
OTC6469 = Camshaft Sensor Synchronizer Tool $47.99 (O'reilly's)
SS10499 = Delphi brand Sensor $39.99 (Napa)


From what I understand, you can buy a Dorman brand synchronizer that comes with the tool and sensor for around $40. You can use the tool and sensor and buy a better sync from somewhere else. Napa has a rebuilt Ford sync, called a "crankshaft angle sensor" on their website, part #NRD48S2801 for $66.99



.

 

[GeorgeR]

How much oil do I use and where/how do I apply it to the new synch before I drop it in?


All of the parts came in, now the fun part... going outside when it's 18* and sleeting/freezing rain to work on this thing.

Ford synch - $140
OTC tool - $48
Delphi sensor - $40

I poured oil over the shaft below the main body. If you can it won't hurt to stand it in a can or other container with oil up to the lower half of the main body for a while, maybe over nite. I think there is some kind of lubricant that is applied at the factory inside the body, but I don't know for sure.
I expect that you are going to have to remove the coil pack bracket in order to get the shaft positioned right. That is the most time consuming part of the job. I'm sure glad I live in Florida when I have to work on any of this stuff. The arrow on the alignment tool should point almost dead ahead toward the front of the truck. Pointing about 1/8" or so toward your left hand if you are leaning on the top front of the engine compartment. (at least that's the way mine lined up) I don't think the amount is critical, but any more than that off center and I would realign it. I hope that you have #1 at tdc on the compression stroke. There should be a white dot on the damper and the timing pointer should split it. You have to view it from the top. I have a compression gauge which helped me determine the compression stroke and made it a little easier.
The NAPA part is the one I used. It worked like a charm, at least so far. It is a USA rebuild by Cardone on a FMC part.

 

[rizzjc]

All prices are + tax yet

It's possible to buy the parts a little cheaper, but I wanted them fast and bought what was in stock. I don't mind paying more money for the Ford part because from what I've read, the Chinese part isn't near the quality of the Ford part.

These are for my '97 with a 5.0. Other years may be different. Part numbers:
F7TZ-12A362-AC = Ford Mortorcraft synchronizer $140 (Ford dealer)
OTC6469 = Camshaft Sensor Synchronizer Tool $47.99 (O'reilly's)
SS10499 = Delphi brand Sensor $39.99 (Napa)


From what I understand, you can buy a Dorman brand synchronizer that comes with the tool and sensor for around $40. You can use the tool and sensor and buy a better sync from somewhere else. Napa has a rebuilt Ford sync, called a "crankshaft angle sensor" on their website, part #NRD48S2801 for $66.99



.

Understood if you walked into the dealer to get it. Looks like Torrie has it for a good price then:
Item Number MSRP Core Price Price
F7TZ12A362AC $172.64 $0.00 $102.55

I'll have to make sure I confirm the problem, and order the parts in time, so I don't have to walk into the stealership.

 

[Mikeri]

Make sure you put some oil up into the shaft. This will help it slide onto the intermediate oil shaft. Oil the gear.

 

[Hunter66]

Im about to tackle mine sooon. Is it absolutely nessessary to have the tool.
It looks to me if you just need it to align the shaft that it could be done with some good ref. pics. How do you pull the shaft out? just pull it? I can picture all the other details mentioned in prior post. I think I have a good idea how to do it so far.

 

[Stic-o]

I have a different part number for the v6 ohv if needed. My new oone from ford was just over $200 bucks. Just have to find time to fix it I will do it the easy way this time...or at least for me. Sence I already have the pan off I'll set the sensor in then the oil shaft and pump. Then just throw the pan back on. This is not a option for most though, because normally you'd need to pull the motor to pull the pan. But sence I have no cross member It a piece of cake

 

[Mikeri]

Im about to tackle mine sooon. Is it absolutely nessessary to have the tool.
It looks to me if you just need it to align the shaft that it could be done with some good ref. pics. How do you pull the shaft out? just pull it? I can picture all the other details mentioned in prior post. I think I have a good idea how to do it so far.

Yes, you can do it without the tool; but your vane/stator must still be in good condition. You must carefully mark the location of the vane/stator and you MUST scribe the top of the engine and the base of the cam syn gear. The gear just pulls out after you have removed the hold down bolt. When you put the new one in, you must hold the vane stator is the exact position of the old. (This is what the alignment tool does...keeping the vane/stator in place at TDC. )This shortcut procedure does not require for you to find TDC. I could not do this shortcut as my vane/stator was destroyed.

 

[white97]

camshaft synchronizer

My '97 Mounty had developed the infamous chirp noise. After reading all the excellent post on this board, I decided to undertake the replacement of the camshaft synchronizer myself. A few points I thought I would pass along, in case any one is interested:

1) After checking with some of my local Ford dealers and finding out what a new one would cost, I contacted a variety of area salvage yards to see if I could find a low mileage one....no luck. Reading some of the post in here, I was a little leary of going with the Darman unit. My NAPA store said they had one, sold by "Belknap" I think was the company. I got it home and opened the packaging and upon inspection, it was a Darman.....part number was stamped right on the unit. So, if you want to use the Darman, go to O'reilly's, Autozone or Advanced Auto and save yourself about $10-$15 dollars.

2) The original unit came out easy enough. I then lubed up the Darman and tried to insert it. The Darman synchronizer would not fit! No amount of lube would make it go in. I had read some previous post and others had similar experiences. I tool the Darmin synch out... turned on the grinder and very gently ran the part of the synchronizer below the first "O" on the wheel. Not sure if the Darmin unit was out of round or just to fat, but this took care of the problem. Slipped right in. Those "Made in China" folks need to pay attention to tolerances.

3) I would definately encourage you to make sure 1st cylinder was at TDC. Mine was not and ...well that is another part of the story I won't bore you with.

Put everything back together and have driven the vehicle without any problems. Noise gone. Check engine light is out(with the help of the new camshaft sensor that came with the package).

Thanks again for all the great post on how to fix this problem.

 

[Hunter66]

How did you even use a grinder on a round part without taking to much off and keeping it round? I would think SAnd papper would be better might take a while.

 

[GeorgeR]

That's why I took the dorman part back and got the Cardone rebuild from NAPA!

 

[5.0]

.

I finally got some time to replace this thing today. It took me just over an hour start-to-finish including cleaning up the tools.

The top of my old sync was still in good condition, so I rotated the engine until the tool would fit in it. I checked the timing pointer and it was 4* to the right of zero! I removed the old sync, set the timing pointer to zero, then installed the new unit. It seems to run a lot better now.

Quick tip - I rotated the engine by using an allen wrench in the power steering pump shaft to fine tune it to TDC compression stroke. It was an 8mm wrench if I remember correctly.

Thanks to all who have helped!



.

 

[rizzjc]

I haven't gotten to this yet (haven't even ordered the parts yet), but am curious about something. Other than the annoying squeak, are there any other signs or symptoms of this being bad? I've got an annoying problem I've been feeling for a while, and I have no clue what it might be. It's like a skip or slip while cruising at around 40 mph. It's subtle, but I'm tuned in to it now, and it's driving me crazy. I'm just wondering if this sounds like any symptom that could results from the cps going bad.