Cam position sensor questions...

[rwenzing]

I have heard of this on V6 apps and there's no reason to think that the V8 is any different. The biggest reason to replace the Synchronizer/CMP assembly is because it also drives the oil pump. If it fails completely, the engine can go with it.

 

[rizzjc]

OK, I'm finally putting my order together. Can I get the sensor and tool from Ford, or should I just get them somewhere else? I'm ordering Motorcraft plugs and wires while I'm at it, and doing it all at one time. Maybe I'll solve several problems at once. (fingers crossed).

 

[GeorgeR]

Hey Joe,
You can get a new sensor from Ford if you like, but you won't like the price tag.
I ended up using a Cardone rebuild that I got from NAPA. It is an American rebuild using a Ford m/c casting, and it works great.
I tried to use the chinese unit from Advance but couldn't get it installed.
The advance unit comes with a tool, and pickup, the Cardone unit does not.
Apparently the advance unit has been successfully installed by quite a few people and moneywise it's the best deal in town. Downstream reliability is a big question with that unit tho.
There has been quite a stir on some of the ford compact lists about the chinese unit lasting ability.

 

[rizzjc]

OK, maybe I'll check NAPA before I order the synchronizer. The Ford sensor is $70 and the sync $110. I'm spending the big bucks and getting Ford wires and plugs as well. Can I buy a tool at NAPA as well?

 

[GeorgeR]

The NAPA stores here sell both units, the Cardone and the Chinese rebuilds. AFAIK, the chinese unit includes the tool, the sensor rig, and the pickup. I don't think that they have the alignment tool separately, but they might where you are. One approach would be to get both units and then return the chinese unit, with the tool and pickup, when you are done. Another would be to get the chinese unit from Advance and the American rebuild from NAPA, then return whichever you don't use.
Joe, you may be able to use the chinese rebuild to satisfy your needs. I had a problem with the one that I got from Advance, and being impatient, I picked up a Cardone rebuild from NAPA and it went right in. I probably could have gotten another chinese unit from advance and it would have worked out ok. There were a couple of complaints about reliability of the chinese unit from advance on another list but I can't recall which one at the moment. If the first unit I got (the one from advance) had installed properly, I would have gone on and saved at least $35 and some frustration by using it. As you know I'm sure, any time you use rebuilt parts it's a crap shoot. I think that the warranty from Advance is 'lifetime' replacement, and as long as you don't have to relocate tdc every time it's only a few minutes to change.

 

[Mikeri]

George: Just an update. The Dorman part still fine in my 98 mountie. Swapped it last Sept. Not a ton of miles; but OK. Oh, I wrote about a drop in gas mileage, and I was worried I had changed the timing because the install ended up slightly off my scribe mark. Just swapped out my fuel filter. Bingo. Back to good mileage. Go figure.

 

[5.0]

Can I get the sensor and tool from Ford, or should I just get them somewhere else?

What I believe some people have done is to buy the cheap Dorman sync because it comes with the sensor and tool and then buy a Ford sync only.

The price of the Dorman sync with the tool and sensor may be cheaper than buying the tool and sensor seperately... it was for me anyhow.

Use the sensor and tool from the Dorman sync with a quality Ford sync and keep the chinese Dorman sync for emergency use only (or just throw it away).

 

[rizzjc]

Gonna try to head to NAPA tomorrow and see what they've got before I order the sync.

 

[rizzjc]

OK, well, I'm not sure that NAPA was much help. They had the sensor for about $36, and a complete unit (sync, sensor, and tool) for $56. The tool is plastic, not metal like the OTC. The kit is a NAPA brand, BK600-2903, "Manufactured for BALKAMP", and "Made in China". So, I guess I'll order the Ford sync and use this alignment tool and sensor. Does that sound like an OK plan? Is there any real issue with the plastic tool, other than maybe a trim to make it fit right? (I think I saw someone say something about that.)

 

[GeorgeR]

OK, well, I'm not sure that NAPA was much help. They had the sensor for about $36, and a complete unit (sync, sensor, and tool) for $56. The tool is plastic, not metal like the OTC. The kit is a NAPA brand, BK600-2903, "Manufactured for BALKAMP", and "Made in China". So, I guess I'll order the Ford sync and use this alignment tool and sensor. Does that sound like an OK plan? Is there any real issue with the plastic tool, other than maybe a trim to make it fit right? (I think I saw someone say something about that.)

If there is an Advance Auto near you, why don't you try that. I just tried to pull it up on NAPA and I'm not having much luck.
I am trying to find the napa part number, they had it listed under a nom de plum when I got mine. I may have to wait til my wife gets home this evening so she can dig out the receipts. Advance had the whole package here for $36 bucks I think.

 

[GeorgeR]

OK, well, I'm not sure that NAPA was much help. They had the sensor for about $36, and a complete unit (sync, sensor, and tool) for $56. The tool is plastic, not metal like the OTC. The kit is a NAPA brand, BK600-2903, "Manufactured for BALKAMP", and "Made in China". So, I guess I'll order the Ford sync and use this alignment tool and sensor. Does that sound like an OK plan? Is there any real issue with the plastic tool, other than maybe a trim to make it fit right? (I think I saw someone say something about that.)

NAPA's web page SUCKS!
I haven't been able to raise a p/n yet. Advance lists the whole kaboodle for $35.99 and you can order it on line. (no core charge either, napa has a $60 core charge if you get the cardone but none with the dorman.
I didn't notice any fit problem with the tool that came with the dorman unit, and didn't see any need to trim it.

Mikeri: Sounds like you got a good one. Congrats
GR

 

[rizzjc]

Well, I gotta order the sync anyway, and I'll just get the Ford part instead of messing with something else. I will take a look at the parts they have at Advanced Auto since it's near my house, and see which is cheaper, and if they quality looks OK.

So, I read through everything again, and it's all becoming clear to me now. I should be OK with the plastic tool, I think, and the sensor that I got. The only thing I'm not clear on is HOW and WHY I need to worry about TDC for cylinder #1. I saw a post about "remove plug, plug hole with finger, and turn crankshaft until you feel a puff of air". That sounds a little hokey of a method to me. I'd like a simpler, more exact way.

 

[rizzjc]

OK, ordered the Ford synchronizer. Now I just have to wait for arrival.

 

[Turdle]

OK, ordered the Ford synchronizer. Now I just have to wait for arrival.

will you please post the part number when you get it?

 

[5.0]

.


If it's any help, the part number I got when I ordered my sync from Ford, as printed on the reciept, is F7TZ*12A362*AC

The sensor I used was from Napa, part number SS10499. It's made by Delphi and is an OEM part. The one I got appears to have had a Ford part number on it that was machined off before it was sold to Napa. I bought an IAC valave before that also had the Ford part number machined off... I'm guessing to keep things legal so Ford can't sue them.



.

 

[5.0]

NAPA's web page SUCKS!
I haven't been able to raise a p/n yet.

Napa's website has the part listed as a "Crankshaft Angle Sensor"

BK6002903 and NRD48S2801

 

[5.0]

The only thing I'm not clear on is HOW and WHY I need to worry about TDC for cylinder #1. I saw a post about "remove plug, plug hole with finger, and turn crankshaft until you feel a puff of air". That sounds a little hokey of a method to me. I'd like a simpler, more exact way.

Cylinder 1 TDC compression stroke is used for reference so you can install the new sync "in-time" with the engine. Think of the sync as having two main parts - the body and the part that spins inside of the body. Both of these parts need to be installed in the exact same position as they were when removed. The tool keeps the two parts of the sync "in-time" with each other, firing on the #1 TDC compression stroke, as you drop the sync in the engine. Cylinder #1 needs to be TDC compression stroke to match what the sync is doing. I'm not sure if this helped or caused more confusion...

But anyway, the simple way I found to do it is: Remove coil packs and anything else in the way. Remove the two screws holding the sensor to the sync and remove the sensor, but leave the sync just where it is. You can look at the tool and see how it has to fit into the sync. Use an allen wrench in the power steering pump pulley to rotate the engine until the tool fits into the sync. (Without the tool installed anywhere, you can use the starter to "bump" the engine around if it needs to move far, just be sure the engine won't fire. Then dial it in using the tool and allen wrench on the power steering pump pulley.) The engine is now where it needs to be. Be sure to look at the timing mark on the harmonic balancer and set it perfectly on 0* if it isn't already. Remove the bolt/clamp that holds the sync and pull the sync from the engine. Be sure your new sync is well oiled. Install the tool in the new sync and drop it in the engine with the arrow on the tool pointing toward the front of the vehicle. Install the bolt/clamp and so on...

Apparently some syncs become physically damaged when they break, making the method I descibed unusable.

It's been a while since I did mine, and I'm going by memory on the above information, so hopefully someone will correct me if I've made any errors.

 

[GeorgeR]

Napa's website has the part listed as a "Crankshaft Angle Sensor"

BK6002903 and NRD48S2801

Yeah, I know. I tried that description yesterday and got nowhere. I tried it again this morning and it work fine. Must be my typing technique.
The BK # is the chinese (dorman) part, the NRD# is the cardone unit, at least that was the case when I bought mine.
Cardone uses a genuine FMC housing and rebuild it with US made parts so the story goes. The chinese unit uses casting molds obtained from us manufacturers and makes new units from them. china's record for quality control is about as dismal as their human rights record. (again, so the story goes) altho some of the stuff out of china is fine.

 

[rizzjc]

will you please post the part number when you get it?

This is the part number I got from this thread, and Torrie confirmed:
F7TZ-12A362-AC

 

[rizzjc]

Cylinder 1 TDC compression stroke is used for reference so you can install the new sync "in-time" with the engine. Think of the sync as having two main parts - the body and the part that spins inside of the body. Both of these parts need to be installed in the exact same position as they were when removed. The tool keeps the two parts of the sync "in-time" with each other, firing on the #1 TDC compression stroke, as you drop the sync in the engine. Cylinder #1 needs to be TDC compression stroke to match what the sync is doing. I'm not sure if this helped or caused more confusion...

But anyway, the simple way I found to do it is: Remove coil packs and anything else in the way. Remove the two screws holding the sensor to the sync and remove the sensor, but leave the sync just where it is. You can look at the tool and see how it has to fit into the sync. Use an allen wrench in the power steering pump pulley to rotate the engine until the tool fits into the sync. (Without the tool installed anywhere, you can use the starter to "bump" the engine around if it needs to move far, just be sure the engine won't fire. Then dial it in using the tool and allen wrench on the power steering pump pulley.) The engine is now where it needs to be. Be sure to look at the timing mark on the harmonic balancer and set it perfectly on 0* if it isn't already. Remove the bolt/clamp that holds the sync and pull the sync from the engine. Be sure your new sync is well oiled. Install the tool in the new sync and drop it in the engine with the arrow on the tool pointing toward the front of the vehicle. Install the bolt/clamp and so on...

Apparently some syncs become physically damaged when they break, making the method I descibed unusable.

It's been a while since I did mine, and I'm going by memory on the above information, so hopefully someone will correct me if I've made any errors.

OK, that's kinda what I was thinking, so thanks.