Centrifugal or Roots...

[zachow3]

So my question is can I run a roots type supercharger on my 96 5.0 with the internal egr? I have the powerdyne BD-11a which certain people on this forum think is junk. I dont want to debate that. I would think there would be an issue running a roots type blower with the internal egr but I am not a car mechanic so I dont know. If it can be done someone would get a great deal on a powerdyne blower...new,never installed with lots of other goodies.
Any thoughts?

 

[zachow3]

This is what I have.... Actually there is alot more. Just dont have pics right now.

 

[zachow3]

Another pic I found.......Gotta love the bed spread

 

[zachow3]

Found these too....

 

[zachow3]

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210882
Lots of good info and pics if you care

 

[zachow3]

Bump
No opinions??

 

[rocket 5979]

So my question is can I run a roots type supercharger on my 96 5.0 with the internal egr? I have the powerdyne BD-11a which certain people on this forum think is junk. I dont want to debate that. I would think there would be an issue running a roots type blower with the internal egr but I am not a car mechanic so I dont know. If it can be done someone would get a great deal on a powerdyne blower...new,never installed with lots of other goodies.
Any thoughts?

The Powerdyne BD-11a blowers did ok for milder boost on the Explorers. The disadvantage is that they can break their internal belts somewhat easily. The good news is that they are cheap and easy to rebuild in your own garage. Since you already have the Powerdyne I suggest you stick with it. You already have the 42's and a 90mm L-MAF so you are started on the right path with that. I have seen people run their BD-11a head units up to 11 psi boost and the blower held up ok; though they are usually happier in the 6-9psi range. Also, if you end up really wanting to go for more power at a later date and have upgraded your shortblock for a forged one then you can swap from the BD-11a head unit to a XB-1a gear-driven one which will support quite a bit more power and is much stronger too. The head unit swap is very straightforward and about the only thing I remember having to do was slightly modify the mount to clear some oil lines.

 

[rocket 5979]

Bump
No opinions??

Relax man the thread hasn't even been up 24 hours. People got to have time to notice.

 

[V8BOOST]

Ditch the centri I've currently have both centri and roots on my cars and believe me I'm much happier with the roots. Go to http://www.jdbmods.com/ buy an adapter kit and get a used m112. You could do it for under 1k. Of course u will need supporting mods injectors fuel pump maf tune.

 

[zachow3]

Ditch the centri I've currently have both centri and roots on my cars and believe me I'm much happier with the roots. Go to http://www.jdbmods.com/ buy an adapter kit and get a used m112. You could do it for under 1k. Of course u will need supporting mods injectors fuel pump maf tune.

I do have all the supporting mods.
The centri is new as is the whole kit but thanks a bunch for the web site. Im definitely going to be giving them a call and see what my options are.
I did get an offer on a m90 kit but that seems a little small for my taste.

 

[rocket 5979]

Ditch the centri I've currently have both centri and roots on my cars and believe me I'm much happier with the roots. Go to http://www.jdbmods.com/ buy an adapter kit and get a used m112. You could do it for under 1k. Of course u will need supporting mods injectors fuel pump maf tune.

Your statement is completely based upon your preference and doesn't really address what the OP may want. Just because you may be happier with the type of power a roots blower delivers doesn't mean the OP will or will not be.

If the OP wants great off idle torque at the sacrifice of power falling off on the top end then a positive displacement type blower like a roots or twin screw is for him.

If the OP wants great top end power at the sacrifice of low end grunt then staying with the centrifugal system he already has would be better for him. Being that the OP already has a centri kit this factors in quite a bit.

I personally run a Kenne Bell twin screw blower in my black 03 Explorer and I love it! But I also understand that while my preference was to do a positive displacement type blower on my SUV it doesn't mean that others prefer the same kind of power/torque curve that I wanted. Not trying to come off as a jerk but if you really want to help then try to understand what the OP's preferences are before making recommendations.

 

[rocket 5979]

I do have all the supporting mods.
The centri is new as is the whole kit but thanks a bunch for the web site. Im definitely going to be giving them a call and see what my options are.
I did get an offer on a m90 kit but that seems a little small for my taste.

The M90 is just fine for a 5.0 engine or a 4.6 modular V8 below 350rwhp and MP90 for 400rwhp. M62 and MP62 are ok for the 4.0 OHV and SOHC but an M90 will suffice too. The M112 will work well on an engine anywhere from 4.6 to 5.7 liters in general. Yes the amount of boost you plan to run comes in major play for determining which size of blower to go with; my list is just a rough guide.

The common recent fad is for people to bolt as large an Eaton blower on their engine as possible. I see geniuses running M112's on 3.0 V6's in their stock shortblock Rangers and 4.0 Explorers and pulleying them for low/mild boost. When picking your method of forced induction bigger does not equal better. All compressors have efficiency ranges. Think of how a mountain looks on a topographical map. The higher into the efficiency peak the more power you will make per pound of boost because you are achieving maximum adiabatic efficiency. If your engine is too small to require the amount of airflow ability that a given blower can produce then not only will you not spin it into the highest adiabatic efficiency range but you will also be inducing more mechanical drag due to the larger more massive rotors that the engine has to spin. The people who bolt these extremely large blowers up to these relatively stock small displacement engines with the intention of never running extremely high boost clearly have no idea of what they are doing, and in turn are leaving power on the table.

 

[zachow3]

The M90 is just fine for a 5.0 engine or a 4.6 modular V8 below 350rwhp and MP90 for 400rwhp. M62 and MP62 are ok for the 4.0 OHV and SOHC but an M90 will suffice too. The M112 will work well on an engine anywhere from 4.6 to 5.7 liters in general. Yes the amount of boost you plan to run comes in major play for determining which size of blower to go with; my list is just a rough guide.

The common recent fad is for people to bolt as large an Eaton blower on their engine as possible. I see geniuses running M112's on 3.0 V6's in their stock shortblock Rangers and 4.0 Explorers and pulleying them for low/mild boost. When picking your method of forced induction bigger does not equal better. All compressors have efficiency ranges. Think of how a mountain looks on a topographical map. The higher into the efficiency peak the more power you will make per pound of boost because you are achieving maximum adiabatic efficiency. If your engine is too small to require the amount of airflow ability that a given blower can produce then not only will you not spin it into the highest adiabatic efficiency range but you will also be inducing more mechanical drag due to the larger more massive rotors that the engine has to spin. The people who bolt these extremely large blowers up to these relatively stock small displacement engines with the intention of never running extremely high boost clearly have no idea of what they are doing, and in turn are leaving power on the table.

So Rob I sent you another PM but from what you are saying is a stock motor, and we are talking the 302, a centri would be easier on the engine as boost would build slower but since my engine cant breath above 5k tops I wouldnt realize much power down low. A roots or twin screw(your probably taking a kenne bell or similar) would be better for low low to mid range power. This is ideally where I would use it. My engine wont turn 6k nor do I care to even try. 8 lbs of usable boost seems reasonable. And by that I mean 8 lbs max at 4.5-5k which wouldnt be that often.
As a 24 yr aircraft mechanic and life long car buff, I am meticulous in maintaining my vehicles.
I bought an suv and I want to have the ability to tow, go on and off road at will. But I spend the vast majority of my driving time on paved roads so why not have a little pep to keep things interesting

 

[rocket 5979]

So Rob I sent you another PM but from what you are saying is a stock motor, and we are talking the 302, a centri would be easier on the engine as boost would build slower but since my engine cant breath above 5k tops I wouldnt realize much power down low. A roots or twin screw(your probably taking a kenne bell or similar) would be better for low low to mid range power. This is ideally where I would use it. My engine wont turn 6k nor do I care to even try. 8 lbs of usable boost seems reasonable. And by that I mean 8 lbs max at 4.5-5k which wouldnt be that often.
As a 24 yr aircraft mechanic and life long car buff, I am meticulous in maintaining my vehicles.
I bought an suv and I want to have the ability to tow, go on and off road at will. But I spend the vast majority of my driving time on paved roads so why not have a little pep to keep things interesting

This pretty much answers the question at hand as long as your preference for the lower end grunt is heavy enough to outweigh the task of selling the centri blower kit and sourcing the parts for the Eaton.

 

[zachow3]

This pretty much answers the question at hand as long as your preference for the lower end grunt is heavy enough to outweigh the task of selling the centri blower kit and sourcing the parts for the Eaton.

This actually could work out great for both parties involved. I get the M90 kit, said to only have 3k on it, with all mounting hardware and extra pullies of various sizes. And the other party gets a "new" never used powerdyne kit. A straight across trade. At least I think so. We are playing phone tag right now.
I also keep the bigger injectors, MAF,CAI and my numerous other stuff.

So I was a little skeptical about the M90 but further research has me thinking this will deliver what I want. And install appears much easier.
So it's kind of wait and see at the moment..
I will update as I know more.

 

[explorinitup]

hummm good info bump

 

[zachow3]

A little WHINE with that cheese?
So....The Eaton s/c may be a no go. My motor has the internal egr which means if I pull off the upper intake manifold and slap on the Eaton I have just blocked off the egr flow and rendered this system useless. I know its done all the time
(lots of forum surfing proved that) but not cool with me.
Unless i am missing something, which seems to happen quite often, I will have to stick with the Powerdyne centri.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sorry, i had to step away from the computer for am moment and verbally vent.
You would think that with 4 years of prep work maybe i might of thought of this at some point:thumbdwn:

 

[V8BOOST]

A little WHINE with that cheese?
So....The Eaton s/c may be a no go. My motor has the internal egr which means if I pull off the upper intake manifold and slap on the Eaton I have just blocked off the egr flow and rendered this system useless. I know its done all the time
(lots of forum surfing proved that) but not cool with me.
Unless i am missing something, which seems to happen quite often, I will have to stick with the Powerdyne centri.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sorry, i had to step away from the computer for am moment and verbally vent.
You would think that with 4 years of prep work maybe i might of thought of this at some point:thumbdwn:

In that case id recommend install the centri some aftermarket heads - Mild camshaft Cam and 456 rear end gears.

 

[zachow3]

So I pulled the trigger and decided to trade my poweryne centri s/c kit with the EE Eaton M90 kit.
Pretty excited.
Owner says about 3k on it and was running the same fuel pump, MAF and 42# injecters that I have. His is a CA truck,newer, a 2000 but had it dyno tuned to 9 lbs and said he was around 350hp at the wheels.
That seems like very good numbers to me . Being a Ca vehicle and limited to 91 octane fuel, he was having detonation problems at that amount of boost so he ran a water/meth kit which solved that.
The kit includes several different pulleys to change boost levels and where I live 92 octane is the highest i can get.
So i think a water/meth kit is in my future.Snowperformance has a stage 2 kit that runs off MAf voltage which take all the guess work out of the equation.
Not cheap but compared to a new engine it's a bargain.
So i have options as to how quick i want to run up the boost on this kit. Properly tuned at all levels of course.
If anyone has additional input on a water/meth kit that might save me a little more money i am all ears.
Thanks

 

[rocket 5979]

If anyone has additional input on a water/meth kit that might save me a little more money i am all ears.
Thanks

Don't get a kit from Snow Performance. Their pumps are notorious for crapping out. I had a friend whose pump crapped out twice in a one year period damn near costing him his engine twice because of it. I recommend a kit from a place like AIS (Alcohol Injection Systems). Their pumps are better quality, higher pressure for better atomization, and can take a higher alcohol content without crapping out.

Good luck with the project.