Convert 4x4 to RWD?

[97Sandbox]

I read through an old 4x4 to 4x2 conversion thread and it doesn't quite capture what I'm thinking about.

Here's my situation: my ideal endgame is a '95-'97 Sport street truck with an LS3+T56 magnum swap (this thread is not meant as a place to talk about all the fab work that will be needed to pull that off -- hopefully that will come before too long though!).

To start, I had planned to find a relatively clean, running/driving, RWD OHV+M5OD truck and begin the build by upgrading the more straightforward systems like suspension and brakes and just keep up with engine and trans maintenance while I save up for the swap. The issue is that I'm seeing plenty of 4x4 models for sale, but virtually no RWD trucks. Conveniently, I have my '97 XLT -- SOHC+5R55E but more importantly RWD -- as a parts donor.

My question to you all is: if I have a RWD donor and I'm planning to build a RWD street truck, is it reasonable to start with a 4x4 Sport? My biggest concern is what to do with the transfer case after swapping out all the front suspension. I assume the 4x4 M5OD is shorter than a RWD equivalent, and I'd prefer to put off buying a trans for the truck until it's a Tremec with 6.2 liters bolted in front of it. Long term we're talking standalone ECU, but I'd also like to be able to drive the 4x4 turned 4x2 in semi-stock form and without too much issue in the interim.

What do you all think? Buy a 4x4 and start gutting my '97, or be patient and keep looking for a RWD sport? Thanks for your input!

 

[Josh P]

Easier to start with RWD but if a very clean 4x4 came up for sale I'd jump on it. The T56 is a nice transmission, I have one I'm going to convert to 4x4 for a diesel jeep liberty. Looks like the tailhousing off the 545RFE transmission will work on the T56 with an adapter plate.

 

[97Sandbox]

Thanks for the input Josh!

To shed a little more light on the build, I'm going to be converting the front suspension to coilovers, so I'll be pulling out the LCAs and steering knuckles anyway when I weld in reinforcement around the shock towers. I don't see it being much harder to swap in the spindles from my XLT when it all goes back together.

The main thing I don't know what's going to happen to the transfer case if it has no half shafts in it. Will it spill gear oil out the side when I turn (bringing back memories of shearing an axle in my Civic)? Is it possible to remove the transfer case completely and still run the original 4x4 M5OD -- maybe with some kind of adaptor?

 

[CDW6212R]

These trucks can be run without the front driveshaft besides the AWD danger of rolling(creeping) when in park. Others have done that and run them short term as 2WD by removing the front axles and taking apart the CV joints, reinstalling the outer axle parts.

You should be hunting the best truck to start with, the condition of the interior and other obsolete items, least rust etc. Try to find the most reliable engine, the SOHC would be far last versus the OHV V6 or V8. The 98-01's are a better platform than the 95-97's, the negatives of the later versions are personal preference. The 99-01's some had ugly fender flares, but some had none. The 95-97's have blue interior lighting, the 98-01's are all green.

For a modern engine transplant, the Coyote engine and trans are now the best choice versus the LS engines. Only the engine width is narrower with the LS's, for engine bay space. Any 2012-2018 5.0 from a Ford is that Coyote engine. The auto trans is a very strong six speed if you need that, with a 4.17:1 first gear, close ratio, and a 0.7:1 high gear. The Mustang 5.0's are harder to find and cost more, the six speed with them would also be more cost versus the auto(runs about $500-$1000 used).

 

[97Sandbox]

Thanks as always for your insight Don!

I agree, I'm mainly looking for the cleanest body/chassis and interior at this point, I'd just like to keep the vehicle mobile as I prep for the swap.

I'm aware of some front suspension upgrades (solid sway bar), but aren't most of the changes from 97 to 98 purely cosmetic? Personally, I prefer the look of the 95-97 liftgate and taillights as well as the blue interior lighting. That said, I also understand those parts all can be fairly easily swapped out with salvage yard parts (except for the neon center brake light?). In a perfect world, I'd find a 95 because anything pre-OBDII is emissions exempt in Wisconsin.

I'm certainly not opposed to a Coyote, but I've always heard their width presents pretty significant clearance issues within the 2nd gen frame. Additionally, there's a good bit of support around Ranger-based LS swaps, where I haven't seen much for the 5.0. At the end of the day, I'm deadset on manual, be it a TR-6060 from a Mustang/Camaro/etc. or a T56 magnum. The Chevy connect & cruise LS3+T56 magnum crate setup is awfully tempting...

 

[CDW6212R]

The tailgate I understand, some people really do like the older style better. I have a 93 rear on my 99, so I like them both but it isn't a big deal for me.

The 95-97's have a slightly more odd wiring for the radio and a few other minor things, nothing worth disallowing any of them. The torsion bar keys can be trouble in the older 95-97's, because the key rides on the frame. Those have a Kevlar pad attached to the keys, and that wears out(I thick they are obsolete too). The 98-01's have a frame pocket which holds a replaceable isolator pad. That's the biggest drawback of the early trucks. You can use any 2nd gen front swaybar, so the 98-01's are all the same solid bar.

I'd check on the Coyote engine if it could work, it may very well be too wide but nobody has tried it. The LS has been put into a 2nd gen Sport, Eric did it with his 99(Mountaineer front grille) a few year ago.

Take your time hunting the right truck, get the best one you can for the money. Enjoy the hunt, I'm sure it will be fun in any version of an engine and manual trans.

 

[97Sandbox]

Thanks for those tips!

I'm not too concerned about the torsion keys as they'll go away when I convert to coilovers and the odd wiring doesn't worry me too much either (I'm sure there'll be plenty of custom wiring I make for the truck by the time I'm done).

Is the trick to using the 98+ solid sway bar adding thread inserts/rivnuts to the frame of the earlier trucks? I know they mount differently than the 95-97 bars (frame rails vs. subframe).

Eric's 6.0 Sport was a big inspiration for me to go the LS route, along with a couple Ranger Station builds I've followed.

I appreciate the encouragement -- I've been dreaming of this build for probably a decade now, gradually compiling knowledge, resources, and parts along the way. When my 5R55E in my XLT went out the second time, I decided to cut my losses and get an M5OD truck...now I just need to be patient and find one!

 

[CDW6212R]

It's been over 10 years since I saw any mention of the front sway bar, but I'm fairly sure the bars are the same dimension, you just use the existing mounts and new bushings. I remember someone mentioning moving the frame mount location, but I don't think it's necessary.

You're right about the torsion bar keys, toss the bars and do the coil over shocks. Get to that and post up your results, I'm planning to do that about last, before paint. So the choice of shocks and spring rates is going to be interesting for a lowered street truck, versus the many off road examples already.

 

[97Sandbox]

Interesting. Last summer I spent a day at the salvage yard and pulled a sway bar of a '98 (frame rail mounted) and tried to mount it onto a '96 (subframe mounted, like my '97) and it didn't look like it was going to work. I seem to remember the ends of the '98 bar pushed the end links on the '96 back to the point where they were at quite an angle (tilted back relative to the bolt holes in the LCAs) -- it didn't look like a configuration that would hold up well. Maybe I should take another look.

So the choice of shocks and spring rates is going to be interesting for a lowered street truck, versus the many off road examples already.

Agreed. The off road folks seem to agree on Fox shocks, but the Ranger-Forums member who makes the kits recommended Strange shocks for a street truck. I may still go with Fox because the shop that everyone on Ranger-Forums recommended sounds like they really know what they're doing and can fine tune to each given application.

Everyone also seems to like the Eibach springs, anywhere between 650 and 800 lb depending on setup. Again, a lowered street truck will likely be different from the 4x4 folks here because I plan to keep a sway bar and most of the off road guys get rid. I'm also planning on an aluminum LS, which is considerably lighter than an iron 302, which a lot of folks swap in their Rangers. I had 700 lb in mind for my spring rate with the intent of a slightly stiffer ride to roughly match the added stiffness from the 1250 lb leaf packs I have for the rear. We'll see what I end up starting with and if I change out the springs over time.

Once I find a truck and start the modifications, there will certainly be a detailed thread!

 

[CDW6212R]

I hope to ask gman to help me with selecting the shocks and springs, for a street only truck that is lowered. he has gone through a number of combinations, and learned a lot about the dimensions that are affected by the ride height, and vehicle weight.

I'm not sure about the front sway bars, that was just what I recall another member posting long ago, say 2005 or so. I would set the bar into the frame mounts, and see where the ends fall at about horizontal. If the ends are over the holes in the LCA, it should work. If it's too far away, then I'd drill the holes in the frame to match the 98-01 trucks. It's just a simple threaded hole. I had a time with the 1.5" sway bar I put on my Mountaineer, the frame brackets Addco sent were useless. The bolt's shoulders hit the radius of the brackets, and could not be tightened down. I had to have new brackets made with proper bending. My machine shop charged me $25 for four of them.