Converting part-time AWD to a true full-time AWD

[awdrocks]

Converting part-time 4wd to a true full-time 4wd

Im buying an Atlas II tranfer case. From what Ive learned the 2003 and up X's have a full-time AWD option with a center diff.

Do you guys think its possible to add that center diff to my 2002 so I can convert to a true full-time AWD?

Is so then with a manually controlled Atlas II I should be able to drive on dry pavement in true full-time AWD or just 2wd.

 

[gijoecam]

The '03-ups still use the Borg-Warner 44-05 (automatic) transfer cases. AFAIK, they did away with the all wheel drive in '02.

Now, assuming that's the case, you *should* be able to swap the 44-06 all wheel drive transfer case right onto the back of the 5R55E transmission. It may require a different front driveshaft, but should work.

Now, AWD with an atlas?? Not sure how that would work... The Atlas in lieu of the OEM case isn't a bad idea, but not in addition to the AWD case.

-Joe

 

[awdrocks]

The '03-ups still use the Borg-Warner 44-05 (automatic) transfer cases. AFAIK, they did away with the all wheel drive in '02.

Now, assuming that's the case, you *should* be able to swap the 44-06 all wheel drive transfer case right onto the back of the 5R55E transmission. It may require a different front driveshaft, but should work.

Now, AWD with an atlas?? Not sure how that would work... The Atlas in lieu of the OEM case isn't a bad idea, but not in addition to the AWD case.

-Joe

I would completely toss the OEM tranfer case and replace it with the Atlas... and I would like to add the center diff that comes in the 2003-ups (or even better a stronger center diff if I can pick and choose) so I could run full-time 4WD on the street.

 

[BrooklynBay]

If you always have 4WD on, you will get less gas mileage. 4WD is good for getting out of snow, mud, etc. Why do you need it all of the time? More drive train components are moving, which also means more wear, and tear. Some transfer cases automatically switch to AWD when the computer detects a need for it. Is that the thing you are trying to do? You would need to replace your computer, and wiring harness for a set up like that.

 

[gijoecam]

I'm completely confused by what you're trying to accomplish.... You say one thing, then completely contradict yourself. How can you toss the stock transfer case, install the atlas, then have all wheel drive?? The whole point of installing the Atlas is to have selectable part-time 4-wheel drive.

You're not making any sense??

-Joe

 

[gijoecam]

If you always have 4WD on, you will get less gas mileage. 4WD is good for getting out of snow, mud, etc. Why do you need it all of the time? More drive train components are moving, which also means more wear, and tear. Some transfer cases automatically switch to AWD when the computer detects a need for it. Is that the thing you are trying to do? You would need to replace your computer, and wiring harness for a set up like that.

Oh, and there's a HUGE difference between part time 4wd, automatic 4wd, and full-time 4wd. His is currently automatic 4wd, and whether it's engaged or not, all the front drivetrain components turn all the time just like a live axle would. AWD does the same thing, with the addition of a center differential of some type that applies some percentage of the power to the front wheels at all times. (His current system is similar to what was available on your 93 Aerostar)

-Joe

 

[awdrocks]

If you always have 4WD on, you will get less gas mileage. 4WD is good for getting out of snow, mud, etc. Why do you need it all of the time? More drive train components are moving, which also means more wear, and tear. Some transfer cases automatically switch to AWD when the computer detects a need for it. Is that the thing you are trying to do? You would need to replace your computer, and wiring harness for a set up like that.

Well heres my deal.

I now have part-time AWD as you just explained, comes on only when I need it controlled through the computer.

Due to my power level, about 430rwhp as I sit. Im eventually going to put this OEM tranfer case on the moon. Thats why I want the Atlas II. I will have about 650rwhp hopefully by the end of the summer.

I doing a complete tranformation of my entire drive train, level 5 half shafts etc.

Now I know I could just throw in the Atlas in the mix and only use it on the straights or strip. I dont want to use slicks etc... I want awd for the strip with light wheels and tires.

Now the reason I want the "option" to use full-time AWD is because occationally under certain circumstances I would like to be able to use full-time AWD on the dry pavement. Maybe on the rainy days, or if im at the strip I can just leave it engaged and not have to worry switching back and forth. If I let someone borrow my X and they decide to throw it in 4wd it wont run into any issues.

I would probably run the X 95% of the time in 2wd mode.... but I want the ability to go 4wd dry pavement as well.

 

[awdrocks]

Oh, and there's a HUGE difference between part time 4wd, automatic 4wd, and full-time 4wd. His is currently automatic 4wd, and whether it's engaged or not, all the front drivetrain components turn all the time just like a live axle would. AWD does the same thing, with the addition of a center differential of some type that applies some percentage of the power to the front wheels at all times. (His current system is similar to what was available on your 93 Aerostar) -Joe

Maybe im just using the wrong terms.. I just basically want the ability switch from full-time 4wd to full-time 2wd as I pleaze with an Atlas II, and hopefully I can accomplish this by adding a center diff. I dont care that I will loose the computer controlled part-time 4wd I have now.

 

[gijoecam]

OK, that's kind of where I thought you were heading with it.

Unfortunately, nobody makes the type of hybrid case you are looking for (at least nobody I've ever heard of). The Atlas won't get you there either. The Atlas provides you with a selectable lock, but does not include any type of mechanism that will allow anything other than a 50/50 split when 4wd is engaged. It's not a matter of simply adding a center diff to the case. I've never seen a part-time AWD case from anyone, and can't imagine how you would piece together something that would accommodate that.

IMHO, if you want AWD even part of the time, just swap in a 44-06 out of an AWD Explorer and forget about it. You're not saving ANYTHING by running in 2wd if you're still pushing the front end around.

-Joe

 

[awdrocks]

OK, that's kind of where I thought you were heading with it.

Unfortunately, nobody makes the type of hybrid case you are looking for (at least nobody I've ever heard of). The Atlas won't get you there either. The Atlas provides you with a selectable lock, but does not include any type of mechanism that will allow anything other than a 50/50 split when 4wd is engaged. It's not a matter of simply adding a center diff to the case. I've never seen a part-time AWD case from anyone, and can't imagine how you would piece together something that would accommodate that.

IMHO, if you want AWD even part of the time, just swap in a 44-06 out of an AWD Explorer and forget about it. You're not saving ANYTHING by running in 2wd if you're still pushing the front end around. -Joe

The problem is that when I do a 1/4 run with a high stall with 600+rwhp that 44-06 will pop like a pop corn.

I need the Atlas's strength, those things can handle several thousand pounds of torque.

So from what I understand I can just get the Atlas and ONLY engage 4wd High for the srtip.... other than that switch to 2wd high mode.

Will that work?

 

[awdrocks]

I called the Atlas distributor where im purchasing the unit and he said it will be no problem under my last senorio. Using 4high only on the strip on the pavement.

 

[justin146]

What you want is AWD and what you will be getting is 4wd-two completely different animals. 4wd is going to directly couple the front and rear 50/50. This is NOT what you want at the drag strip. I am not sure the front axle will hold up to a 50/50 power launch. AWD (like mine is) puts about 60rear/40front.

Technically 4wd will work on the pavement in a straight line at low speed. When you get to trap speed, handling will go to absolute crap with 4wd. It will make it really easy to hit the wall from correcting for wind.

I am saying all of this from experience- I swapped to a 4wd case on my Turbo AWD Bravada (450+hp), made one pass almost crashing from loss of steering, then put my AWD case back in. The AWD case never failed, but it was a purely mechanical case kinda like my Ex has.

 

[awdrocks]

Interesting... Thanks for the insight. That's why I like to ask around before diving into something... Expensive projects that don't work out how you wanted hurt.

That would be a hard hit on the front diff at 50/50 split... I'm sure my dana 40 front diff can be beefed up to a dana 60 or something just thinking out load.. what worries me is the the steering loss you mentioned.

Let me ask you this.. Are the full-time AWD models like the 03 Xs a 50/50? Or are they more like a yours splitting more out back?

Another idea would be to send off my OEM TC for a one off custom build to withstand some good power... That would be awesome.

 

[awdrocks]

Interesting... Thanks for the insight. That's why I like to ask around before diving into something... Expensive projects that don't work out how you wanted hurt.

That would be a hard hit on the front diff at 50/50 split... I'm sure my dana 40 front diff can be beefed up to a dana 60 or something just thinking out load.. what worries me is the the steering loss you mentioned.

Let me ask you this.. Are the full-time AWD models like the 03 Xs a 50/50? Or are they more like a yours splitting more out back?

Another idea would be to send off my OEM tranfer case for a one off custom build to withstand some good power... That would be awesome.

Ok im in heaven. I just got off the phone with Level ten dot com and they can beef up the OEM tranfer case to withstand the my power level. He says they have done many custom jobs like this and in most cases the tranfer case can handle more than the tranny.

Now I can have my OEM part-time 4wd work like it does now.

Heaven heaven!!!!

 

[james t]

What you want is AWD and what you will be getting is 4wd-two completely different animals. 4wd is going to directly couple the front and rear 50/50. This is NOT what you want at the drag strip. I am not sure the front axle will hold up to a 50/50 power launch.

I bet it would live longer than you would think. Due to weight transfer, there really isnt going to be alot of weight on the front during a high power launch... so there wont be much stress on the front.

 

[awdrocks]

well I understand much better the difference from an AWD to 4wd. Reading back on my last ignorant posts sound funny now lol

Well my best obvious option is an awd tranfercase for pavement launches. Atlas even though a monster will probably break due to the fact that it has no vicous coupling.

Now to find the right AWD case.

 

[410Fortune]

AWD rocks your sig is too long

 

[awdrocks]

AWD rocks your sig is too long

hows that?

 

[gijoecam]

What you want is AWD and what you will be getting is 4wd-two completely different animals. 4wd is going to directly couple the front and rear 50/50. This is NOT what you want at the drag strip. I am not sure the front axle will hold up to a 50/50 power launch. AWD (like mine is) puts about 60rear/40front.

Technically 4wd will work on the pavement in a straight line at low speed. When you get to trap speed, handling will go to absolute crap with 4wd. It will make it really easy to hit the wall from correcting for wind.

I am saying all of this from experience- I swapped to a 4wd case on my Turbo AWD Bravada (450+hp), made one pass almost crashing from loss of steering, then put my AWD case back in. The AWD case never failed, but it was a purely mechanical case kinda like my Ex has.

Regardless of your particular experience, 4wd alone does not cause a loss of steering control at any speed. Additionally, unless you're running slicks at all four corners, the forces generated by driveline bind-up will be much less at high speeds in a straight line than when turning in a parking lot.

The front axle will definately hold up to 50/50 power launches over and over again. You'll toast the tranny in a 2nd gen from doing power launches long before the front axle gives out. Besides, from the factory, you end up doing a 50/50 power launch every time you mat-it from a stop-light. (Thanks to the Control-Trac system!) The halfshafts may not hold up to excessive Hp numbers, but those are cheap.