dana 35 on 38.5x15in boggers

[explorerman3]

Ok guys, I have a 1991 eddie bower with a 5.5in superlift, new jasper rebuilt engine, 4:88 yukon gears in the front and back, detroit locker in the rear, and a mazda m50d 5 speed transmission swap, sittin' pretty on 35in bfg mudders. Now, I recently came into a set of 38.5x15in boggers that I am eager to put on, but I have a few hang ups first. One is clearance, which is why I just got a 3in body lift, the other hang up I am having, has to do with the front differential. I know there are people out there that do not like dana 35 ttb that came on the 1st gen explorers, which is my guess to why when people want to run tires like 38.5's they do solid axle swaps. I know a lot of you guys out there will disagree with me attempting to put such massive tires on a seemingly week, yet underated axle. My question is, however, how long should I expect my front end to last under such stressful conditions turning the boggers? I should say that I have been extremely impressed with the drivetrain on these very overlooked offroad performers (explorers), especially the 1st gens. I have been very lucky with breaking things on mine, so far I have only broken the stock automatic hubs, and 2 a4ld auto transmissions (which suck,in my opinion), both differentials, transfercase, and all the u-joints have held up to what Ive put them through. I drive her, for the most part pretty carefully in the mud, and try not to take too many unnecesary risks (like beating the heck of it when Im stuck). Please let me know what y'all think of my suicidal endevor?

 

[410Fortune]

Ranger X has been wheeling a D35 TTB with 37" MTR's for a while now
I believe alot has to do with driving style, avoiding wheel spin when offroading is a big help

routine maintenence also plays a key role in your 35 ttb holding up to 38's

38 IMO is too big for the D35 ttb, but new axles and conversions are expensive
Fixing broken parts on the D35 when you do grenade something is also not too expensive or difficult

I would vote you upgrade any weak parts in that TTB because you will be putting it under ALOT more stress then it currently sees with 35's

Consider a modified spindle nut setup to keep the wheel bearings torqued, also look into running beefy U joints and even adapting dana 44 outers onto your d35 beams.

I would run it, be nice to it, and see how it holds up since you already have the tires, why not?

4.88 with the 5 speed and 38 swampers is gonna be hard on your truck that is for sure...I would be more worried about the driveshafts, clutch, and 5 speed if your TTB is in good shape.

a 91 on 35's will also go pretty far off road, I would consider lockers before I went to 38's, but like you said you already have them. If you plan to run 38's forever... start saving for that SAS or D44ttb

 

[4x4junkie]

Most of what 410Fortune said I can agree with, except for the part about saving up for the D44 (TTB or otherwise).

The D35, as you've found, is a very rugged axle for it's size & application. A lot of this has to do with the fact that the parts that would normally be the first to break are the very same parts shared with D44 axles, the axle u-joints being the one of most significance. Consequently, they are very close in overall strength (the D35's HP ring & pinion gears are not known to fail often in spite of their smaller size vs. the D44's).

If you were to upgrade (SAS), you'd probably want to shoot on past any D44 for a D60, as this would be the next significant step in strength (you could do shaft & u-joint upgrades on a D44 also, although this will still put you close to (if not matching) the cost of a D60 (and still not be as strong)... may as well just go 60 IMO).

But I would also agree, locking differentials will easily outperform a simple tire swap.

Here's what I would do:

Keep the D35 for now, upgrade to the stronger Jeep hubs (Warn pt# 37780), replace the axle u-joints with (genuine) Spicer 5-760X joints (no substitutions here), and either clearance the axle yokes so you can install full-round snapring clips on the u-joint caps (instead of the stock half-circle clips), or tack-weld the caps to the axle yokes. Both are to keep the caps from spitting off those half-clips while under severe load (resulting in lost caps), which is the primary cause of u-joint failure on virtually any frontend with u-jointed axleshafts.
Then get yourself an Aussie Locker (or Lockright) and drop it into the front diff and go wheelin on your 35s and see how it does. Then if you still think you need more, try out the Boggers (but do expect breakage if you get too stupid with the throttle). Meanwhile you can start saving up for that 60 (and a rear 10.25" or GM 14bolt to match) and you'll be ready for something that'll make those 38.5" Boggers look small.

 

[explorerman3]

Thankyou guys for replying so quickly! Its greatly appreciated. I had a few questions on your responses. For one, what exactly does it mean to run dana 44 outers? Also, why did 4x4junkie recomened a lockrite or aussie locker to my detroit? Are there any benefits to running an aussie or lockrite? Another question i had was for 410fortune, do you think my m50d 5-speed transmission will not hold up to the 38's? This would be bad news for me because I have not had good luck in the past when it comes to transmissions. Any advice will be accepted, I will try to post pictures soon! Thanx!

 

[HahnsB2]

Thankyou guys for replying so quickly! Its greatly appreciated. I had a few questions on your responses. For one, what exactly does it mean to run dana 44 outers? Also, why did 4x4junkie recomened a lockrite or aussie locker to my detroit? Are there any benefits to running an aussie or lockrite? Another question i had was for 410fortune, do you think my m50d 5-speed transmission will not hold up to the 38's? This would be bad news for me because I have not had good luck in the past when it comes to transmissions. Any advice will be accepted, I will try to post pictures soon! Thanx!

If you keep it open it might stand a chance with 38s but if you lock it don't even bother. I'd also throw a locker up front instead of running the 38s. Aussies are cheap, strong and easy to install. Your transmission will be fine, your proper gearing means your tranny sees no more stress than stock, the M5OD is a tough ******* if maintained. 44 outers means to run 44 knuckles, brakes, hubs, and outter axle shafts.

 

[4x4junkie]

I suggested the Lockright/Aussie because of their cost, and the fact it sounds like you're possibly heading down the road to further upgrades.
The Aussie and Lockright are probably the only two lunchbox lockers that are worth a damn, most of the others (Detroit-"EZ", Quick-Lok, etc) have not been as well known for reliability. The full-carrier Detroit Locker is most certainly a good quality unit, but they are more spendy, and I've seen cases where breakage of a front axle shaft or hub damages the Detroit, where others (Lockright, Aussie, ARB) are generally unaffected by it.

This page covers the D44 Outers mod
http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/winter2007/44knuckleswap.htm

My opinion of this is that it probably isn't needed unless you are having problems with warping brake rotors (or need to change the lug pattern due to a rear axle swap). The D44 spindles would also get you better-spaced wheelbearings that can better deal with the leverage from large-offset wheels, although in many cases, some care while setting up the preload on the stock D35 bearings will get them to last a good long while (unless you're running something ridiculous like wheels with 2.5" backspacing). Torquing the outer D35 locknut (if you have manual hubs) to something like 250ft-lbs will keep it tight as well (the book spec of 150 is too low, and is why they often come loose).


As for your transmission, it's longevity is greatly affected by the axle gear ratio you run. You'd have no problem spinning even 44" tires if you were geared somewhere in the 6.17-6.72 range.
4.88s (as said) are a tad tall for 38.5" tires, but if you aren't putting a lot of load on it, the trans will probably be OK (5th gear will probably be unusable though). 5.38 would be a better ratio for 38.5s, although this would require that D60/10.25 upgrade, as they are not available for the D35, and I don't believe the 8.8 either.

 

[Dannyboy]

5.13s are the tallest I am aware of being able to put in a Dana35/8.8 combo. Still some argue that you the ring gears are weaker at that ratio.

I wouldn't bother going from 4.88 to a 5.13, instead I would run a doubler or Atlas II transfer case. Also carry spare shafts and hubs and go for it. We have heard of plenty of people breaking the Dana 35s (I have done my share) but if your stuff is set up correctly you can run it pretty hard. I am now running 35s with no locker and I have yet to damage my current front end.

And for some motivation

 

[410Fortune]

My d 35 ttb has also held up very well on my BII considering
I have V8, 4.10 Yukon R&P, ARB locker, stock shafts w custom outer on pass side, Spicer u joints, and the new Warn jeep hubs
I run 35x12.5 MT Baja MTZ at 10-14 psi off road. I have broken:
Precision gears
arb cross shaft
I spicer u joint

thats it! since I went 35's.. ball joints last 2-3 years max, wheel bearings last forever if you re-pack them every 3 months or so, etc
Tie rods, steering, u joints, they wear out much faster with these big tires. So to keep breakage down I replace them often, they are cheap enough. I have ALOT of trail spares LOL

I never broke anything before that luckily enough (31's to 33's)

I have my TTB apart ALOT for one reason or another, usually spindles/ball joints, wheel bearings, brake work, etc
Checking on your parts, cleaning your hubs, re-torquing your bearings, alignment, bushings, grease etc will really make a big difference.

Also FINESSE wheeling is the key to not breaking parts off road IMO
My BII was my daily driver for 13+ years, I couldnt afford to bust a part in Moab when I had to be at work Monday

it holds up well, but 38's are pushing it big time
and as pointed out a dana 44 is still considered weak for those meats

 

[explorerman3]

Thanks again for all your input, you have all given me a lot of ideas. Im getting the tires mounted today, Ive seen ot with the front driver side bogger mounted, AND IT LOOKS HUGE!! They be-little my old 35's, and 35's are no little tires! Like I said earlier, pics are coming soon! I havent even gotten the body lift on yet, but I have a lot of fender trimming!

 

[explorerman3]

Hey guys. Well, she survived her first time out in the mud, I took it quite easy on her, and I must say I was biting my lip the whole time through! I was definatley nervous, but so far so good (knock on wood). I have one concern at this point, and that is the clutch. It was definatley taking a beating (being the stock clutch), and I was curious to what aftermarket options I have. What is the toughest clutch availabe for the m50d? I could really smell her burnig up, any advice would be helpful. Thanks!

 

[410Fortune]

centerforce dual friction, are y ou considering lower gearing (doubler??)

 

[91exploreron37]

Come on man where are the pics!!
If you do go with a clutch upgrade then I'd recommend the centerforce dual friction, Ive been extremely happy with mine.

 

[explorerman3]

I figured that the centerforce dual friction would be the best choice. What exactly does running a doubler mean? Does it have anything to do with the transfer case, or transfer case gearing? And will it help me turn those meaty tires any easier? I am running the stock engine right now, its a jasper rebuild. I am planning to do headmen headers, a bigger throtle body and spacer, an intake, and an edge performance chip ( I dont know if the chip will do much). Hopefully the clutch, the engine upgrades, and the doubler? will give me enough help to turn the boggers. Does anybody know of any other engine upgrades for the 1st gen 4.0l? At this point I need all the help I can get to turn em. Thanks a lot!

 

[Tbars4]

...Any pictures of your project truck yet???...

 

[410Fortune]

yes pictures

Doubler is 1.5 t cases, it gives you low range...........twice

 

[explorerman3]

OK guys heres the long awaited pics:

Heres me next to my brothers 92 ramcharger, on 35" procomps, and a 6" lift.

...And 35's are no small tires

 

[Dannyboy]

that is sick, those tires are just about big enough. I like it!

I didn't realize you were in IL. That's the only place I've been with someone pulled over for bumper height....based on your truck having no bumpers, I'd be curious how that conversation would go down.

 

[Pollarican]

Wow looks like a mean mudder! Impressive

 

[91exploreron37]

Man that thing is nice!!! Those are the exact tires I want but they wouldnt last too well on my daily driver. Are those stacked blocks im looking at on your brothers ramcharger?

 

[91exploreron37]

Also what size wheel are you running? width wise