Desperately need help, cam synco won't line up

[1997XLTRollover]

Hey guys I've read a ton and I am having trouble timing my cam syncronizer. I set tdc using the crank pulley and even double checked by pulling the spark plug. When I drop the synchro in I cannot get the arrow on the tool to line up straight on the center line. It comes up either pointing to the left or right. According to my Ford manual it says it should line up straight. I don't want to screw this up and burn a piston. Any help is greatly appreciated. Btw this is in my 1996 explorer 5.0.

 

[koda2000]

Hey guys I've read a ton and I am having trouble timing my cam syncronizer. I set tdc using the crank pulley and even double checked by pulling the spark plug. When I drop the synchro in I cannot get the arrow on the tool to line up straight on the center line. It comes up either pointing to the left or right. According to my Ford manual it says it should line up straight. I don't want to screw this up and burn a piston. Any help is greatly appreciated. Btw this is in my 1996 explorer 5.0.

there is a CPS installation tool you can borrow from most auto parts stores. I believe the tool includes different colored pieces depending on what year engine you have. the CPS can be installed w/out the tool, provided you don't disturb anything (which you've already done). I'm guessing the reason you can't get the mark to line up is that you have slop in your timing chain. this slop puts the crank and cam out of sync slightly.

 

[SoHK_alumni]

I don't think the CPS timing tool will point exactly straight forward, certainly won't on either of the two 5.0's I've worked on.

On both engines, I've had the timing cover off so there's no question the crank and cam are at TDC and like you, I have to choose between slightly to the left or slightly to the right of center.

As long as the cam, crank and Cam Synchronizer are timed at TDC, it really does not matter (except for where the electrical plug is) where the tool points.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

there is a CPS installation tool you can borrow from most auto parts stores. I believe the tool includes different colored pieces depending on what year engine you have. the CPS can be installed w/out the tool, provided you don't disturb anything (which you've already done). I'm guessing the reason you can't get the mark to line up is that you have slop in your timing chain. this slop puts the crank and cam out of sync slightly.

I have the tool. This is a brand new engine so there is no slop.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

I don't think the CPS timing tool will point exactly straight forward, certainly won't on either of the two 5.0's I've worked on.

On both engines, I've had the timing cover off so there's no question the crank and cam are at TDC and like you, I have to choose between slightly to the left or slightly to the right of center.

As long as the cam, crank and Cam Synchronizer are timed at TDC, it really does not matter (except for where the electrical plug is) where the tool points.

Are you 100% sure? I've read horror stories about having these installed wrong and burnt pistons.

 

[SoHK_alumni]

Are you 100% sure? I've read horror stories about having these installed wrong and burnt pistons.

Yes, it's the mechanical alignment of the three components (cam, crank, syncronizer), not the direction the electrical plug points. As long as the three are aligned and there's room for the plug, you're good to go.

 

[PAExplorerXLT]

I wondered why they didn’t need cam sensor in the old days. It apparently does what distributors used to do. Timing was such a simple matter. Loosen the distributor, point the timing light at the flywheel markings and turn. Does the problem OP mentions exist in those cars too?

 

[1997XLTRollover]

Yes, it's the mechanical alignment of the three components (cam, crank, syncronizer), not the direction the electrical plug points. As long as the three are aligned and there's room for the plug, you're good to go.

Awesome. Thanks. I probably spent 2 hours staring at this thing. Haha

 

[Runnin'OnEmpty]

I wondered why they didn’t need cam sensor in the old days. It apparently does what distributors used to do. Timing was such a simple matter. Loosen the distributor, point the timing light at the flywheel markings and turn. Does the problem OP mentions exist in those cars too?

Well....sort of. In the good old days of carbs you could install a distributor 1 tooth off (of the cam gear), and that
would throw the firing order off. You could then compensate
by rewiring the distributor plug wires.

Same thing applies to distributors with fuel injection; with those the cam sensor is also located inside the distributor.

With modern engines, the fuel injection is regulated by a cam sensor, and the ignition is timed by a crank sensor.

 

[1997XLTRollover]

Well....sort of. In the good old days of carbs you could install a distributor 1 tooth off (of the cam gear), and that
would throw the firing order off. You could then compensate
by rewiring the distributor plug wires.

Same thing applies to distributors with fuel injection; with those the cam sensor is also located inside the distributor.


With modern engines, the fuel injection is regulated by a cam sensor, and the ignition is timed by a crank sensor.

So for me the fact that it doesn't seem to line up with the center line is ok? I can choose from a couple teeth to get it close but none are dead on.

 

[SoNic67]

It doesn't matter. Timing is set by the difference between the central "flag" (connected to camshaft gear) and the outside "notch" where the sensor is installed. That "outside ring" can be rotated by hand to align and then pin down with the clamp and bolt.
In my case, original setting had aligned an edge of the "flag" with the center of sensor window, so I left it like that. I figured that maybe the sensor is triggered by the leading "edge" of the flag. See pic below:

If you can fit the connector on the sensor, not obstructed by manifold that is around it, you are good.

 

[shucker1]

The crank trigger wheel actually uses evenly spaced teeth to achieve engine firing angles. The ECM has been told that there are "X" number of teeth to look for. However, 1 Tooth is missing and it has also been told if it encounters that missing pulse "This is TDC reset the count for the firing angles."

However, since we have 2 rotations of the crank for 1 rotation of the cam we need to "Block" the reset signal to keep the firing order in line.

Thus the cam sensor rotating at 1\2 Crank Speed.

Think of it as a door. If the door is open our "Reset Count Signal" can pass through and reset the count. If the door is closed it cannot.

As long as TDC is set on compression stroke it does not matter where the cam sensor body lines up as long as the alignment tool is used. The alignment tool actually mimics the electrical sensor placement thus aligning the Flag on the synchronizer shaft.

Sonic67 is correct.

Remember TDC on #1 compression stroke must be set and the tool which aligns the flag on the cam sensor must be used. It does not have to be straight ahead with the front of the engine.

 

[SoHK_alumni]

On modern sequential fuel injection systems, the cam synchronizer is used to to ID TDC #1 compression so the PCM can correctly time which injector opens when. The idea is for the injector to only spray while the intake valve is open and there's an active stream of air flowing into the cylinder.

Earlier "port" fuel injection systems simply supplied a continuous spray of fuel towards the intake valve whether is was open, getting ready to open or not. The closed but hot intake valve was actually used to help vaporize the fuel before entering the combustion chamber.

Throttle body fuel injection systems were simply electronic carburetors.

The earlier systems did not care about being timed to the rest of the engine and suffered efficiency issues because of it.

 

[SoNic67]

The crank trigger wheel actually uses evenly spaced teeth to achieve engine firing angles.

This tread is about camshaft sensor.

On modern sequential fuel injection systems, the cam synchronizer is used to to ID TDC compression so the PCM can correctly time which injector opens when. The idea is for the injector to only spray while the intake valve is open and there's an active stream of air flowing into the cylinder.

Not really true. Is used mainly for spark timing. That's 10x more important than the injection time.

 

[SoHK_alumni]

Going to disagree here, the crankshaft position sensor and ring is what the PCM uses for the the ignition system.

Particularly on the coil pack "wasted spark" ignition system, the ignition system does not care about TDC #1 compression and TDC #1 exhaust.

For proof, grab an old school timing light and watch the timing marks on the crank as you rotate the cam synchronizer. Timing won't change.

Moving to a more modern coil on plug fully sequential ignition system and then yes, the ignition system will use the camshaft position sensor for base timing. But even then, only at startup as a reference to know to trigger coil #1 or #6 at the first TDC the crank position sensor detects.

Still, this is way outside of the needs of the OP. In his case, as long as the cam and crank are timed correctly and the cam synchronizer is correctly timed at TDC #1 compression, the direction the electrical connector points is immaterial.

 

[Turdle]

Yes, it's the mechanical alignment of the three components (cam, crank, syncronizer), not the direction the electrical plug points. As long as the three are aligned and there's room for the plug, you're good to go.

This correct, it doesn't matter which direction the tool points, as long as the tool is inserted, and the engine is at TDC for the compression stroke on #1 cylinder. The important thing to remember is that TDC occurs on both the exhaust and compression stroke in a 4 cycle engine. In other words, the piston may be up and the timing line may line up but you can still be 180 degrees off as far as the camshaft is concerned.

My cam sensor points a little to the left

 

[SoNic67]

My cam sensor points a little to the left

Hey, mine too

 

[1997XLTRollover]

Ahhhh ok this makes more sense now. Thanks guys I just got a little nervous. Fired her up tonight and she sounds good. Haven't ripped on it yet, going to wait 500-1000 miles but it seems to be running well.

 

[rb142]

Going to disagree here, the crankshaft position sensor and ring is what the PCM uses for the the ignition system.

Particularly on the coil pack "wasted spark" ignition system, the ignition system does not care about TDC #1 compression and TDC #1 exhaust.

For proof, grab an old school timing light and watch the timing marks on the crank as you rotate the cam synchronizer. Timing won't change.

Moving to a more modern coil on plug fully sequential ignition system and then yes, the ignition system will use the camshaft position sensor for base timing. But even then, only at startup as a reference to know to trigger coil #1 or #6 at the first TDC the crank position sensor detects.

Still, this is way outside of the needs of the OP. In his case, as long as the cam and crank are timed correctly and the cam synchronizer is correctly timed at TDC #1 compression, the direction the electrical connector points is immaterial.

The CAM sensor is not used for fuel or spark. All spark and injection timing is based on the crankshaft sensor (the crankshaft measurement gives engine rotational position, among other things). The ONLY thing the CAM sensor does is to distinguish which rev of the cycle the engine is on.

 

[SoNic67]

So it doesn't even matter it's alignment?