Electrical Failure

[VinceL]

I've been told to steer clear of the 2011+ threads but FWIW, components of an electrical system can still operate for a short period of time even with total electrical shutdown if capacitors have been placed in the system for logging and diagnostics.

Why?

 

[broken strut]

I've been told to steer clear of the 2011+ threads

Is that because you're a tool? JK. This is very interesting. Please keep us updated.

 

[IZwack]

Is that because you're a tool? JK.

That is correct.

 

[tropicvi]

Here we go again, total electrical shutdown

I began this thread after three total electrical shutdowns (like battery removed from vehicle) while driving. After ten minutes everything was normal, no fault codes. That was two years ago, and 7 months out of service for vehicle repairs. Vehicle (2011 Explorer) has been back in daily use for about 6 months, and this past weekend, once again, while driving, total electrical power shutdown, only this time did not reset in ten minutes. Fortunately I was able to leave it where it coasted to a stop. I check an hour later, still not electrical power. Left it over night, and in the morning, it was as if nothing had happened. Started as normal, drove as normal, no faults showing. I have no trust in this vehicle anymore. My plan is to return it to the dealer and leave it until they can guarantee this will not ever happen again, as I only have 7 months left on warranty. Any ideas on what is shutting total power off?

 

[tropicvi]

Okay back to the forum... the issue of random total electrical shutdown continues. Imagine driving along and the battery is somehow instantly removed from the vehicle. That is what happens (only battery is not removed) Zero electricity in any part of the vehicle. Nada. then after a period everything comes instantly back to life as if nothing has happened. Most recently foray to the dealer, indicates no codes in any code storage places. It is if it has never happened. Fortunately, last time it happened (at night, so you can imagine a totally unlit vehicle stopped immobile in the middle of the road...) I did have the service manager's person cell to call to be the only record of the incident, as the car reactivated within 10 minutes. Ford reps who provide input to dealers have no ideas... Now just to wait for failure on a high speed turn... Anyone else experience this??

 

[plumbago]

Sounds to me that this vehicle fault or condition could have serious consequences and should be reported to the NHTSA as soon as possible.........Plum

 

[Odrapnew]

Sucks to hear your issue. Next time it happens(assuming there will be one), see if you can record a video. Might be difficult, but worth a shot.

 

[Kpwweb]

I began this thread after three total electrical shutdowns (like battery removed from vehicle) while driving. After ten minutes everything was normal, no fault codes. That was two years ago, and 7 months out of service for vehicle repairs. Vehicle (2011 Explorer) has been back in daily use for about 6 months, and this past weekend, once again, while driving, total electrical power shutdown, only this time did not reset in ten minutes. Fortunately I was able to leave it where it coasted to a stop. I check an hour later, still not electrical power. Left it over night, and in the morning, it was as if nothing had happened. Started as normal, drove as normal, no faults showing. I have no trust in this vehicle anymore. My plan is to return it to the dealer and leave it until they can guarantee this will not ever happen again, as I only have 7 months left on warranty. Any ideas on what is shutting total power off?

I dont know of ANYTHING that can kill ALL power to the vehicle except the battery. After the battery, power splits off so many ways that most systems receive even ancillary power for system memory and the like...

The only other thing is it may SEEM like the vehicle has no power, when in fact the ancillary power is still available...

Have the dealer check the battery clamps at the battery, and the plug-in connections there as well. Further, have them check the MAIN relay, and the ignition switch or module in the run position.

Just seems really fishy that everything dies... Again the only thing that could do that would be the battery or negative battery cable at the battery..

 

[Odrapnew]

Wouldnt the alternator still power the vehicle even if the battery connection was loose? Not knowing the full cable routing on the Explorer, i dont know for sure, but I thought the negative went directly to the engine block and the positive went to a common positive connection point. On my 89 mustang, the positive connection point is the "hot" side of the starter relay. So, all negative connections ground to the body or block and all positive connections stem from the starter relay.

 

[tropicvi]

Appreciate the input. Trust me the dealer has been through the car systems to the point of replacing the entire fuse block and wiring in the engine bay, yet the total shut downs still occur. It defies logic. There is zero power. engine shuts off, no lights anywhere, no flashers, no door locks, no brake lights, (alternator does not output power when engine stops) no dash lights no dome lights, nothing. Then poof, it all comes back, with nary a code showing anywhere (and verified by dealer's shop). Dealer has referred it to headquarters, as it is a safety issue and still under warranty. I plan on installing a "dash cam" to watch the instrument cluster and road to visually confirm what I am seeing and experiencing. And battery terminals have been confirmed, even to a new battery... when it happens it is as if there was no battery installed. So it has to be something first in line from the post, but I can't find out what that might be, and apparently nor can the dealer. We do have lemon law, but that will cost me a lot of money based on the lemon law formula. I just want my car to be reliable.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Appreciate the input. Trust me the dealer has been through the car systems to the point of replacing the entire fuse block and wiring in the engine bay, yet the total shut downs still occur. It defies logic. There is zero power. engine shuts off, no lights anywhere, no flashers, no door locks, no brake lights, (alternator does not output power when engine stops) no dash lights no dome lights, nothing. Then poof, it all comes back, with nary a code showing anywhere (and verified by dealer's shop). Dealer has referred it to headquarters, as it is a safety issue and still under warranty. I plan on installing a "dash cam" to watch the instrument cluster and road to visually confirm what I am seeing and experiencing. And battery terminals have been confirmed, even to a new battery... when it happens it is as if there was no battery installed. So it has to be something first in line from the post, but I can't find out what that might be, and apparently nor can the dealer. We do have lemon law, but that will cost me a lot of money based on the lemon law formula. I just want my car to be reliable.

Just out of curiosity, have you timed how long everything goes "dark"? I'm wondering if it is the same amount of time every time as if everything restarts after 5 minutes etc. Only reason why I ask is because I wonder if something is surging, going dead and then resetting/rebooting. Just my curiosity working..

 

[Odrapnew]

Just to clarify what i meant, the car should stay running if you disconnected the battery while it was running. So, the thoughts that the battery is disconnecting somehow shouldn't just kill all power if it was running. Is there a fuse, or fusible link in the main power wires that could be interrupting power, but not completely blowing the fuse?

 

[Kpwweb]

Just to clarify what i meant, the car should stay running if you disconnected the battery while it was running. So, the thoughts that the battery is disconnecting somehow shouldn't just kill all power if it was running. Is there a fuse, or fusible link in the main power wires that could be interrupting power, but not completely blowing the fuse?

Um, no. The battery must be in the circuit.. Yhe alternator cannot power the car--it will quickly fry. The primary job of the alternator is to keep the battery charged.

And fuses either blow or they don't. I've never seen a fuse "halfway".

 

[tropicvi]

To answer the above. Time for "dark" that is total shut down before "reset" was about 10 minutes the first three times. more recently there was a shut down that after an hour I gave up (it was late on a Saturday) and left the car overnight. It was "live" in the morning. Last time a week ago, it was about 5 minutes.

The engine shuts down, and everything electrical is non functional. It is a total outage, instantly, without any warning signs. Car runs normally before and after. As stated, the dealer has not been able to figure this out. It is not repeatable on will, just a random thing.

 

[Odrapnew]

To answer the above. Time for "dark" that is total shut down before "reset" was about 10 minutes the first three times. more recently there was a shut down that after an hour I gave up (it was late on a Saturday) and left the car overnight. It was "live" in the morning. Last time a week ago, it was about 5 minutes.

The engine shuts down, and everything electrical is non functional. It is a total outage, instantly, without any warning signs. Car runs normally before and after. As stated, the dealer has not been able to figure this out. It is not repeatable on will, just a random thing.

I didn’t read through everything, but have you tried disconnecting the battery and reconnecting when it’s “dead?” If not, you might want to try that. Just remove the negative cable for a minute, reattached and see if it comes back. I see you stated the dealer checked the battery terminals, but that was when it was in working order. Electrical issues are a PITA to find, especially when they are intermittent like yours. Another thought would be to wiggle wires. Maybe it’s a loose wire somewhere that’s killing it. Just throwing out ideas for quick/non-intrusive tests.

 

[blwnsmoke]

I didn’t read through everything, but have you tried disconnecting the battery and reconnecting when it’s “dead?” If not, you might want to try that. Just remove the negative cable for a minute, reattached and see if it comes back. I see you stated the dealer checked the battery terminals, but that was when it was in working order. Electrical issues are a PITA to find, especially when they are intermittent like yours. Another thought would be to wiggle wires. Maybe it’s a loose wire somewhere that’s killing it. Just throwing out ideas for quick/non-intrusive tests.

I was kind of thinking a ground somewhere as well but the OP did state the dealer replaced harnesses and checked wiring under the hood. I know with my F250, I had a ground to the chassis completely rusted out and it was not attached that they found during another unrelated issue. This seemed to not cause any issues but still it was something that happened and is possible.

 

[plumbago]

Sounds as if bang, a capacitor or relay fails at will because of heat, then after a cooling period, it works again until it decides to over heat again, most likely because of a "short" or faulty connection. I think I would also consider that perhaps the ECU/PCM, which controls about everything, could be subject to the same heat failure/recovery.....visit with the Dealer about this possibility....best regards Plum

 

[dco43054]

Sorry if I missed it, but have they replaced the engine management computer? Sounds like the system is shutting down.

 

[jrmexplorer]

Weren't you the member that got in an accident because of this issue tropicvi? I thought you were suing Ford and your car was totaled?

I could be wrong though.

 

[tropicvi]

NHTSB were sent the black box, and their determoination was the accident was determined to have no bearing on the electrical failure issue. Fascinating 28 page printout of what the black box records. The level of detail in the 5 seconds prior to impact is amazing. The driver (not me) hit the accelerator instead of the brakes (as the black box indicated) and torque steer confused the driver, compounded by the easy effort of the EPAS. The electrical failures were before the accident, and continue after repairs effected. why the insurance did not write off the vehicle, given the final cost of the repairs, baffles me. Then this whole issue would have gone away.

Weren't you the member that got in an accident because of this issue tropicvi? I thought you were suing Ford and your car was totaled?

I could be wrong though.