Everyone with an Automatic inside!!

Ok guys I got quite a few PM's over this from this board and from a couple others that I post on.

Let me state that everyone here that reads this it might not apply to your specific application, but it sure is a hella lot cheaper to check than it is to find out like I did.


Yes this is a re-post from another thread but I thought it needed to be here too!

Start original post here:


Ok as most of you know, I'm a pretty die-hard Ford kinda guy, with a few exceptions.
That doesn't mean that Ford doesn't come up with some really dumbass-riffic-stupendiously-geniusomatic, stupid **** for brain ideas.

So my story begins:

Well as we all know, the last time I went wheeling I lost the oil pump in my 224k mile motor, eh not so bad, I can deal with that, so Saturday I went to work and put a new motor in the Nasty Hoe.

While in the process of removing the transmission cooling line from the radiator, a Pepto Bizmo pink colored fluid came out!
But if you recall I so called "Water Proofed" my truck, so I thought.

While at the last run some of you all might recall, due to a slight navigational error, I wound up in some water approximatly 3 1/2' or so deep (up over my lap while sitting in the driver's seat), and was dubbed the new Submarine Captain!

Well after going ahead and pulling the transmission and transfer case, my 30k mile "Ford" rebuilt transmission was completly full of water and transmission fluid, I don't even know how we kept on wheeling for another 5-6 hours after that.

So after further inspection, with the transmission out, I noticed 2 little rectangular holes in my vent tube up at the top of the bellhousing, I'm not sure what Ford was thinking but this turned out to be a disaster for me!

So after being pretty, well, miffed about that I went out back at work and snatched up a 5 speed and shoved it in there insted, so now I need to go buy a clutch and pressure plate, and swap out pedals, put the transfer case back on and put in the drive shafts, and we'll be back on the road, it just was a little more than my pocket book was ready to deal with this weekend.


So all you clowns with automatics that like to play in the water like I do, pull that factory vent tube off and replace it quickly, or you might wind up with pansyass pink fluid funfilling your day too!
But oh well that's the price you pay to play!




UPDATE:


Went to work and checked 5 other 1st gen. 4 speed automatics from Explorers, and have seen anywhere from 2-3 punched/stamped holes in the vent tube of transmissions that come in the 4x4 application.
I didn't have time to check on the 2nd gens so someone may want to take up my slack here.

 

[410Fortune]

?????????????? speak english man.

OKay you have a new 5 speed in a crate
you have a busted 5 speed in the truck you began to remove

why not just put the new 5 speed in the truck?

oh and the crush collar on thayt hydro line is a ton of fun if you have never done one before..........

 

[AlaskanJack]

Sorry Jamie

I was partially replying to a PM by SVO and then his post.

I have never done a tranny swap so I was considering the mianshaft swap. Weather is approaching fast so today I am getting under it and getting the old tranny out.

What can you tell me about the hydaulic line removal to make it easier for me. Never done it and understand I need special tool.

 

[AlaskanJack]

Oh and for my trail rig I now have a C4 and D20 to go in with the D44 front and 9" Rear.

I am going to learn about trannies this winter as I build this one up. With the help of an experienced tranny man.

I did some checking and it appears as though the C4 has a first gear of 3.49:1 does that sound right? Cause I also found something that said 2.56:1, I thought getting this info would be easy but I guess not.

I'm just trying to figure out what my crawl ratio will be with the C4 D20 and 5.13 gears running 35's or 36's

 

[410Fortune]

well the c4 was used in cars and trucks I believe so you want the truck first gear. therangerstation.com may have this info posted.

use a small flathead screwdriver or two on the crush collar, basically you push the white plastic ring in as far as it will go, then pull on the line. It's easy once you have done it, the key is to make sure you get that sucker pushed in all the way around (360 degrees). Its kinda like a chinese finger puzzle, meaning you have to keep pushing the crush collar in as you pull the hydro line out.

Just swap the entire 5 speed, bleed the slave cylinder and be done with it. Put in a new clutch pack while you are in there, rough up the flywheel with some sand paper, clean it with some brake clean, you can take the flywheel and have it surfaced and press in a new bearing if you want.
I had horrible luck with LUK clutch packs but others swear by them, get the HD unit. I personally would install a Centerforce gold or II.

watch that fan, dont let it hit the radiator when you drop the tranny x member
do youself a favor and drop the y pipe from the exhaust too, it makes it 5x's easier to stab the tranny. disco the battery so you dont arc the starter wires.
get a new gasket for the t case too.
the upper tranny bolts also hold the 02 sensor wires in place, and a ground strap, dont forget to hook the ground back up when you are done.

forget renting a tranny jack, they are more of a PITA then they are worth. 2 people can stab the 5 speed no problem, 1 person can do it but it hurts your back (trust me) Last time I did it I used ratcheting tie down straps and a floor jack/block of wood, worked like a champ.

Thats about it. I had 3-Mazda 5 speeds in my BII with the 4.0L and I went through numerous clutch packs trying to get it right (never did, finally converted to auto)
I got so I could do a clutch myself in about 4.5 hours, not that it was fun, but with the right tools it can be done and its a fairly simple straight forward process......

make sure you have the BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!



oh and a 3' 1/2" drive extension with a wobbly REALLY helps get at those bellhousing/engine bolts (from behind the tranny)
If you can get a helper, have them guide the extension/wobbly/socket up to you. Sit on your engine and guide the socket onto the bolts. this method makes short work of those upper bolts.

Also you can get the two top bolts with a 13mm wrenmch or small socket from behind the engine, sitting onthe engine.
I put my knees on the radiator support, one hand on the a/c compressor, rest my chest on teh upper intake, and then you can get both hands back there to unplus the 02's and get the bolts/brackets/ground.

I call it making love to my 4.0L, shes pregnant now

 

[AlaskanJack]

Ah yes remove the y-pipe I forgot about that. As for getting on the engine! Well when I did the engine swap for my nephew my hands were too big to get ot the top 2 bellhouding bolts. I hope these aren't that bad.

I had the clutch replaced 7,000 miles ago so I'm gonna leave it be. My plan was to use ratcheting straps and my floor jack and block of wood also.

 

[410Fortune]

with the clutch did you replace the slave cyl?

If it aint broke, dont try to fix it.

If your 5 speed is still working good with the new clutch then maybe we should re-consider just swapping the broken parts.

The problems begin when you start replacing stuff, rebuilding tranny's, they are never as good as the original 98% of the time.

Now, my main reason for saying just swap tranny's was to take care of the clutch/slave at the same time.

 

[AlaskanJack]

Well the clutch is mounted to engine and isn't the slave mounted inside the bellhousing of tranny?

Cause I was told the slave was only a few months old in the new rebuilt 5 spd I got.

My budy thinks that I can just pull the extension housing and swap out the mianshafts and I'll be good.

 

[SVO]

Whoot!!

Ups and www.dialaclutch.com pulled through for me today and delivered my clutch kit!

BUUUUUT! I see you two have been chatting like school girls at a slumber party since I',ve been gone. lol

Fortune, from your post, YES you have done this before, quite a few times, I use a pair of needle nose plires to get that ring to go in, and give a little push on the hydralic line just before the tug to make it come out.

I'm sorry to hear that you didn't like the LUK clutch, that happens to be just what I bought, the Premium Gold Kit.
The Centerforce II is by far the better choice, but my budget denoted that wouldn't happen this time around, plus Waco Brake & Clutch here also builds custom clutches, and so if this fails I can get it upgraded for not a lot of cash, he does all of our street clutches and mini stock clutches.
They are know to hold 450+ hp.
One of the reasons I bought the kit is because everything in mine needed to be replace, bearings, and the slave so for $258, I figured what the hell.
Now I just have to figure out what the little O-ring is for! haha!

Jack the extention is your friend!

So are his little buddy's the wigglers!

And to see your delima with the weather you have, we got 6" in less than 2 hours, that equal 2 1/2" of water in the shop!

I had to go back into it on the way home, the front line was just hanging there in the sky.
Driving a Mustang in the pouring rain is like trying to catch a greased pig!

And we can't forget to than Home Depo Performance for the grade 8 pressure plate bolt and washers, and parts for your potatoe cannon!

 

[SVO]

dejello: it's been so long... what's it like to be going about 100mph?

dejello: (refering to the pic in the transmission thread)

Gotta love them 2.73 gears

HAHAH! didn't think about that when I took the picture, guess I'm busted, the worst part is the Texas sun on the leather steering wheel, but at leaset it doesn't ooze black **** like my Navajo, that stuff likes to never come off.

[note to self] Have steering wheels on both re-rapped[/note to self]

 

[SVO]

Originally posted by AlaskanJack
Well the clutch is mounted to engine and isn't the slave mounted inside the bellhousing of tranny?

Yes with two 10mm bolts

 

[SVO]

this one is just for you dejello:


http://luna.snu.edu/~operativex/vids/jeff.AVI

I would be the owner of the 1st gen Lightning, hence the user name SVO (Special Vehicle Operator, aside form several Mustang SVO's)

 

[RFR2212]

C4's first gear is a 2.46:1 and a c5 is a 2.48 and a d20 has a low gear of 2.46:1 as well

 

[jasonb]

nice truck in that pic!

 

[ExplorerSportNu]

Originally posted by jasonb
nice truck in that pic!

ROFL, gotta love them Ford vettes, them the sweetest!!!

 

[jasonb]

huh? thats the rear of my truck.

 

[SVO]

HAHAHHAA! Ford Vette's! :shakes head:

Yupers, that's your truck on the wall, printed it out for the sticker on your back window.

 

[Nate1]

I pulled a LUTFT and wouldnt you know it, my 5R55E has the exact same holes! :fire: I bet that means all 5R guys have them, so watch out!

I have two feasible options that I can think of..... Get some heatshrink and place it over the holes, clamp it down, and let the tranny's heat shrink it down, or possibly something like silicone to seal it, or some rubber tubing over the metal breather slid over the holes and clamped... the problem is, there is almost no room to work/see up there, so clamping is pretty much going to require dropping the tranny a little or a bodylift and a flexy screwdriver thingy. Another option is replacing the metal line entirely where it meets the tranny, but IMHO that would be more work....
What to do, what to do?.......

Agh....

 

[dewgod]

I've had to replace my tranny and then the clutch a couple months later. It was so much easier the second time around. Removing the exhaust is a must. The o-ring is for the hydraulic lines. I like the clutch I have now. I shredded the stock replacement clutch I bought when I replaced the tranny. I now have a custom clutch from Six States. It is ceramic on the flywheel side and carbon metalic on the flexplate side. Works great. Cost $85.00. Oh also has upgraded springs.

 

[SVO]

Originally posted by dewgod

Yeah it had been such a wash for a week trying to get the rig put back together, that the O-ring had me going for about a day, but I got it all figured out though, Thanx.

On a whim, we did join the group going to Gilmer last weekend and ran with them a whole day and into the night, before returning home, undaunted by any mechanical grimlens.

Of coure, it's and on going project so there will be always more to come, and more to modify.

We are also lucky enough to have a premier custom clutch builder here too, the only reason I opted for the LUK this time around was to get all the other parts too, it would have cost billions more if I had bought them seperately.
It was a blast to wheel with the 5spd.



Here's you a pic from last weekend:

 

[slag]

Originally posted by SVO
Good observation, mixing the two fliud would be a no, no, in either case.


"Gotta keep'm seperated"

Actually, the two fluids are identical, both ATF, so there would be no "mixing"

It would be perfectly acceptable to vent both together into a T fitting and then leave just have one Breather tube up into the engine bay or wherever you vent it to.

BTW, my breather tube on my 91 has no holes, but I know this because I just rebuilt the tranny and put it back in.