FLUIDS fluids fluids

[mjjstang]

97 sohc 4x4 79K

Ok, I have read and read and read and even read long long threads about this subject, and as this forum is so large, its inevitable that you will have conflicts. what my problem is im getting 4 different ideas on every subject. so here goes wiht my problem. I want to change my powersteering fluid, xfer case fluid, and transmission fluid (im not flushing so im just going to put regular fluid in.)

POWER STEERING: I believe it is not such an issue on what to use, but as I understand merc V is too slippery for some applications like the xfer case, but I have bought mobile 1 synth atf for the power steering.

Transmission: I am going to just use motorcraft merc v to top off the fluid after I change the fluid, what 4 qts maybe.

XFER CASE: this is the bigger problem. People have said its not good at all to use merc v spec in the xfer case as like I said its too slippery. so they reccomend ONLY normal merc fluid. though amsoil and moblile 1 are both rated for merc v, so what do I do.

what is the reccomended fluid to use for each component. Hopefully I can get some info from guys that have actually done this and not just more opinions, thanks so much for all the help, sometimes I get too much help.

 

[snoborder42]

I just use plain old power steering fluid for the steering. When I changed my tc fluid I used the good old plain ATF. Took about 2 bottles of Merc III, i think. Glad i did it too, the fluid was blacker than black. As for the tranny, I can't help you there, I've got the manual tranny and have never worked with the autos.

 

[pj8847]

The synthetics are backward compatible and will work absolutely fine. If they didn't, they wouldn't be able to to be rated for use at a certain spec.

If you're not going to flush, I would use whatever you have been.
If you do flush, then it is simply a choice that relies on your personal preference.

This is one of those questions/topics that can spawn a debate that will give you no definitive answers, ultimately, it's your choice, but synthetics DO last longer between changes, and have shown their worth when it comes to slightly better protection/life of components. This can help in the Transfer case as the fluid doesn't pass through any type of filtration, it just sits in the case, sloshing around.

ok, this didn't help at all....:

 

[glfredrick]

I'm sort of confused about an oil being "too slippery." Especially in an instance like a transfer case where it simply lubes moving parts. Can there be such a thing as "too slippery?" Sounds like beer talking to me...

I run Amsoil in most of my stuff and have had no problems whatsoever. I believe that our T-cases are built to run on Dexron, not Mercon, but in any case, any synthetic that works for that application will work for you.

FYI, if there was a place where synthetic oil might be a problem, it would be in either a transmission or a limited slip rear axle, where there are clutch plates that run "wet." I've run synthetic in both areas, with BETTER lock up than with regular oils. My L/S unit will actually chatter a tire on the street running Amsoil without an extra bottle of L/S additive (which is designed to allow the clutches to slip!).

 

[BrooklynBay]

Welcome to this forum! Mercon V is semi-synthetic. I have a chart in my signature with a list of applications for various kinds of automatic transmission fluids: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1348273&postcount=10

 

[KPT]

I have had Mobil 1 ATF in my tranny (manual), transfer case and powersteering for about two years with no problems. Transmission and transfer case ATF was BLACK at about 100k.

 

[glfredrick]

FYI - color in oil is a function of being heated, not an indication of being "dirty." I've seen oil that was nice and "oily" colored that plugged up my Royco particle tester, while oil that was "black" sail through with no problems.

I've also watched oil change colors in the viscosity bath (used to test actual viscosity at various temperatures).

Color can be an indicator of the presence of other substances in oil, but merely being black is not an automatic indicator of bad oil.

That may not be true of automatic transmission oils though. They generally remain red, and any darkness in them means that they have been over-heated!

 

[mjjstang]

I refer to this post where everyone says its not the biggest problem, but in fact he should go back to the mercon and drain the mercon v out of the case. and there were some guys who have been around the forum a while, saying that. I dont get it. why 2 people can have completely different opinions on this topic here is the link http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100074

BROOKLYN: your chart says about merc V, "must not be used in 1997 or earlier fords" well I have a 97 explorer so I am even more confused.

 

[glfredrick]

If I may... it may be more of a fluid chemical composition compatibility issue than a lubricity issue. Make sense?

Some transmission oils will swell the seals and soften the clutch material if they are run on top of another oil of a dissimilar chemical nature.

The synthetics are all rated to run in anything -- no matter what has been run before, hence no issues. I hope that clears some things up for you.

Its not, as I said above, that one oil is "too slippery." It is that its chemical makeup will attack seals and clutches. In a sense, "slippery" oil is what we are after -- as long as it has the molecular structure to bond to the parts we are trying to protect. This can get long-winded, but one of the major differences between a true synthetic like Amsoil and dino oils is the chemical makeup of the oil. Amsoil, for instance, has a long-chain molecule that tends to want to stay together, yet that flows out easy in cold temperatures, etc. Dino oil has many sizes of molecule, some very short some medium, a few long chain. It tends to "fall off" of parts easily, and has a lesser "shear" strength (when rubbed against something - the amount of protection it gives before being sheared off of the surface).

The chemical composition of synthetic does not attack the material used in seals and clutches so it is fine to run. Switching back and forth between Dexron II/III/IV, Mercon II/III/V, Type F, ATF, etc., (GL 1/2/3/4) is where you get into trouble.

Because of all the flack out there, pro- and con- about Amsoil (as if it is snake oil or something) I'll post a little blurb I found on BP's site that explains synthetic oils and their use:

How do synthetics give better performance?



Unlike mineral oils, synthetic oils are prepared by chemical processes that enable each synthetic lubricant to be designed with specific properties. This careful preparation means the resultant oil is chemically pure and can be used over a wide range of difficult applications, particularly at extremes of temperature and where low deposits are an essential requirement. High viscosity index, resistance to oxidation and reduced gas solubility are all properties that can be designed in to the finished synthetic lubricant to enable it to perform to exact, more severe operating requirements, with enhanced reliability.







Can they reduce running costs?



The improved performance and enhanced reliability of ENERSYN synthetics means less frequent oil changes and consequently reduced downtime, less maintenance and parts replacement. All resulting in significant operating cost savings for the operator.

I don't know about you, but to me, that sounds like EXACTLY the sort of oil I want in my vehicle for longest life and roughest use. Of course, Amsoil says EXACTLY the same thing on their site, but no one believes them becasue of all the stigma attached to that brand name. Why? Haven't a clue -- guess it is just another propoganda war.

 

[KPT]

That may not be true of automatic transmission oils though. They generally remain red, and any darkness in them means that they have been over-heated!

If dark ATF means overheated why would my manual transmission and the transfer case turn ATF black? Neither one have active cooling obviously and are just splash lube. The fluid did have 7 or 8 years and 100k miles.

 

[glfredrick]

Dark is almost always heat related. Not "dirt" related as many seem to indicate by their comments.

 

[pj8847]

If dark ATF means overheated why would my manual transmission and the transfer case turn ATF black? Neither one have active cooling obviously and are just splash lube. The fluid did have 7 or 8 years and 100k miles.

there is still quite a bit of heat generated by meshing gears, rotating parts, etc... Not all friction is eliminated by using ANY type of lubrication.

Then add in heat cycling to the mix, though a manual tranny, or a t-case, may not get all that noticeably hot on it's own, heat dissipated through the casing from the engine will result in the oil in the tranny and the t-case being heated as well, and over time, eventually will have an effect on the fluids. Driving style will affect this as well, if your on the throttle hard all the time, the heat generated by the friction between moving parts exponentially increases, and without any method of cooling (such as in a manual tranny, or a t-case) the fluid stays hotter, longer. which will result in it's color becoming darker as some components of the fluid itself, in effect "boil off", if you will.

there is a more technical explaination, one of which I'm not going to start, I've had my fill of thinking about transmissions and fluids for a while...

Again, this doesn't help much, I know...:

 

[BrooklynBay]

ATF color diagnostic chart: