Fuel Starvation

[derek griffiths]

Hi Again!
After getting my Explorer back on the road at the end of April (thanks to some good advice from you guys) I went to Canada a couple of weeks ago and whilst I was away, my wife broke my Explorer!
To be fair, it wasn’t her fault, it just stopped working and needed to be recovered and taken home on the back of an AA truck.
The problem seems to be fuel starvation and this is where I am again asking for some assistance.
I have checked all of the fuses (fuse 19 and so on), I have checked the fuel pump relay and I have checked the inertia switch in the passenger side footwall, all are perfectly fine.
I will now change the fuel filter, which I can obtain quite easily. However, I can’t hear the fuel pump coming in and I think ultimately, this will be the problem.
I know I will need to drop the fuel tank to gain access to the pump and I don’t see that as a problem.
My problem is I can’t seem to find anyone in the UK who can supply a new pump. I have got about three offers of second hand units, via an on-line enquiry site but I don’t feel like fitting a second hand unit. It could cause me more problems than enough!
I would appreciate any advice on this problem, any hints or tips and particularly information about anyone who can supply a pump at a reasonable price.
Cheers………..Derek

 

[chrisquelch]

hi
the pump dosent make much noise but if its the pump you can change just the pump you dont need the compleat sender unit . rock autos (usa)can do new pump delivred to uk for about £56. i can do a s/h one for £20 deliverd. it could be just a cloged strainer .cheers chris

 

[techieman33]

Can't help you with sourcing the pump, but here is another option instead of dropping the tank
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182160&highlight=fuel+pump

 

[rich uk]

if u put a screw driver up to the tank and other end to ur ear u will hear the pump or not ..
there is a little circuit on the top of the fuel pump which is connected to the imobiliser ..mine failed so i bridged it out and hey presto had fuel supply ..

 

[janolsson]

Hi Again!
After getting my Explorer back on the road at the end of April (thanks to some good advice from you guys) I went to Canada a couple of weeks ago and whilst I was away, my wife broke my Explorer!
To be fair, it wasn’t her fault, it just stopped working and needed to be recovered and taken home on the back of an AA truck.
The problem seems to be fuel starvation and this is where I am again asking for some assistance.
I have checked all of the fuses (fuse 19 and so on), I have checked the fuel pump relay and I have checked the inertia switch in the passenger side footwall, all are perfectly fine.
I will now change the fuel filter, which I can obtain quite easily. However, I can’t hear the fuel pump coming in and I think ultimately, this will be the problem.
I know I will need to drop the fuel tank to gain access to the pump and I don’t see that as a problem.
My problem is I can’t seem to find anyone in the UK who can supply a new pump. I have got about three offers of second hand units, via an on-line enquiry site but I don’t feel like fitting a second hand unit. It could cause me more problems than enough!
I would appreciate any advice on this problem, any hints or tips and particularly information about anyone who can supply a pump at a reasonable price.
Cheers………..Derek

Hi Derek
What happened? Was she driving it and it stopped or was she out somewhere and came back to it and it wouldn't start? If the latter (maybe even the former)i believe the crank position sensor will not allow the injectors to fire if it is not giving the correct signal. Mine sometimes will just turn over and not fire until i disconnect the cps and reconnect. It is at the bottom, front of the engine so gets road mess thrown at it so the moisture and dirt gets into the connection. Another thing to look at is putting a fuel pressure guage on the fuel rail, much easier than dropping the tank.
Also check the fuel filler cap is secure and the filler neck pipe is ok at the top and where it meets the tank.
Lastly, there is fuel in it isn't there???
A bit more info on the breakdown might help with the diagnosis.
Also obd reader may shed some light.
Jan

 

[derek griffiths]

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my thread. I am sorry I have not been back on sooner but I have been away.
Further details about the break down; my wife had driven about 20 miles at about 50 miles per hour, she came of the main road into a housing estate, she was turning left when she became aware that the steering had gone stiff, this was because the engine had stopped and the PA steering had stopped. My son was also in the car, neither of them heard any sound or noise, the engine just stopped. When the breakdown man arrived, he checked various things and declared it was fuel starvation and that the fuel pump had probably gone.
Since my last post, I have confirmed that there is no fuel getting to the engine. I have checked all fuses, relays and the inertia switch all seem to be fine.
I have also disconnected the inline fuel filter which is under the car on the near side. As I pulled the pipes off, some fuel leaked out, it was coming from the fuel filter itself, the main fuel line was completely dry.
Whilst I had the main fuel line disconnected, I had someone try to start the engine. My assumption is that fuel should have been pumped out of the main line from the tank but it remained bone dry.
Therefore, I am still assuming it is the fuel pump and I will need to drop the tank. I have looked at the alternative of cutting a hole in the floor to gain access to the pump but I don’t really want to do that.
Any further advice would be much appreciated………….Derek

 

[derek griffiths]

Hi Chris thanks for your help!
I have been in touch with RockAuto a few times over the last few days. I have given them my VIN number etc. and they have confirmed (as you would know) my car was made in the USA and they came back with parts that would match.
I have just ordered and paid for a Performance Electric P2157K unit and paid express delivery.
I am taking the tank out on Sunday, getting ready for the new pump. I have also ordered a new filter and that should be arriving early next week.
It is frustrating to have the car off the road, for something so minor?
Anyway……….Thanks………Derek

 

[derek griffiths]

Jan
Thanks for contributing, yes there is about half a tank of fuel in the car, Sandra had just put about £50 pounds in, about half an hour before it stopped. The breakdown man asked if she had put petrol in and not diesel (she had put petrol in) and made her show him the receipt?
As you will have seen from my other posts, I am fairly convinced it is the pump and I have ordered one from the USA.
I hope this fixes the problem but thanks you so much for your help…………..Derek

 

[janolsson]

Jan
Thanks for contributing, yes there is about half a tank of fuel in the car, Sandra had just put about £50 pounds in, about half an hour before it stopped. The breakdown man asked if she had put petrol in and not diesel (she had put petrol in) and made her show him the receipt?
As you will have seen from my other posts, I am fairly convinced it is the pump and I have ordered one from the USA.
I hope this fixes the problem but thanks you so much for your help…………..Derek

Reading other threads etc, it is not unheard of for the pump to just pack up!
Obviously contaminants in the tank, sludge and the like can overwork the pump and cause it to fail sooner rather than later. When you get the old one out check the state of the tank inside. Also have a look at the filler neck behind the wing as they can corrode there and let water in.
Hope you get it sorted
Jan

 

[derek griffiths]

Thanks Jan, I will give some feedback when I get the tank out. Externally, the tank looks in very good condition but the explorer was parked up for many years, so the tank may have sludge?
I guess the right thing to do is pour petrol through the tank, or maybe a cleaning agent, what do you guys think? I don’t want to deal with this problem more than once.
Please let me know your thoughts……Derek

 

[derek griffiths]

Hi Guys!
It has taken a while, due to the fact I have been so busy and couldn’t find the time to work on my Explorer but it is “BACK ON THE ROAD” following the fuel starvation problem. I still have a couple of issues which I will get on to later; it was in my opinion, a simple but chewy job. It was the fuel pump that had failed and as many of you know, it is situated within the pump assembly, which is inside the fuel tank.
My first problem was locating a new pump without paying silly money to the local Ford garage. However thanks to Chris who put me on to “Rock Auto’s” in the states, I managed to get a new pump for about £56 including shipping. Rock Autos were great and identified the correct pump from my VIN number; I would highly recommend these guys!
When I started the work I had the usual problem of undoing bolts that hadn’t moved since the car was built but what I didn’t realise was, the connections on the fuel system pipes, needed a special tool in order disconnect them, without damage….OOPS, I levered them off and without realising it, broke them all!
When I got the tank out, replacing the pump and strainer was fairly simple, the pump assembly is easily removed at this point and the pump and strainer is a direct swap. My problem was because I had damaged the connectors without realising it, I couldn’t put it back together?
The solution for me in the end was to run in new fuel lines and use standard jubilee clamps. For information, the pipe recommended to me was specialist internally armoured fuel injection pipe, there are two different sizes required, 8mm and 10mm and I used about 3.5 metres of each. The problem with this solution is you still have to connect the pipes to the armoured fuel lines in the engine compartment, in order to connect to the injector system. Luckily I hadn’t disconnected these pipes and therefore hadn’t damaged the bayonet connections.
I didn’t know where to get the specialist tool that would allow me to disconnect these fittings without breaking them, so after much thought, one Sunday morning, I made a simple tool that did the trick. This sounds strange and it is hard to explain but I used the thin metal from a wine bottle top to form a sleeve that would fit around the male part of the connection pipe. It just clipped around the pipe and I then could push it into the female part of the fitting and bingo, it released. It is also worth mentioning that I gained good access to these connections by removing the nearside front wheel and unclipping the protective rubber panel to the engine compartment. Just for good measure, I also replaced the in-line fuel filter which is situated under the vehicle, not far behind the front nearside wheel.
Anyway, it all went back together, no leaks now but the clips need to be very tight, as I did have one when the system pressurised.
As mentioned before, I do have some issues!
I have had the engine management warning light come on twice. When I connect the laptop, I get two fault codes which both indicate the fuel mixture is rich. Also, at times, I am seeing an unstable idling speed, with the revs going from about 780 to 1200 (computer diagnostic readings). On a few occasions when the revs have dropped too low and the car is stopped at lights etc., the engine has cut out. (Automatic Transmission)
I have no idea what this may be, any ideas / suggestions would be great!
Cheers guys, thanks for all of your help, if I can be of any help to you, please get back to me…….Derek

 

[janolsson]

Clean out you IAC valve, if that doesn't fix it then clean your MAF (and obviously ensure your air filter is clean)

 

[derek griffiths]

Just to complete this thread from some months ago, I have now fixed the rough engine idle and stall problem. It turns out it was my fault, I hadn't connected the line to the fuel tank pressure switch properly.
I thought this was a breather pipe and just fastened it to the chassis? Therefore, the tank pressure was not as it should have been and the data from the switch was false. I discovered my problem after buying a Haynes Manual and reading it from cover to cover. Anyway, a silly mistake that meant I had to partially drop the tank out again and spend a couple of hours in the cold but at least it's sorted now.......Derek

 

[janolsson]

Good to see you got it done
To disconnect the fuel lines i have used a bit of 15mm copper pipe that i cut down the length and also used a silicon tube nozzle that i cut down the length but the copper worked better!!!