Header Question

[UNTAMND]

Its hard to find the correct place to post this, but I was wondering what people have used for aftermarket headers other then the TorqueMonster headers. I have installed a set of TorqueMonster headers on my friends explorer, but I can not make myself pay the 700 dollars for them. My theory is that if I spend 700 on headers, I might just as well spend 1000 and have a sweet turbo setup (I have built many custom turbo kits at my shop) Anyway, have any of you seen these headers. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280014162661

I know they are not as much of a gain as the TorqueMonster headers, but they are stainless and better then stock. Any opinions about these. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Turdle]

No
I have held both in my hands, once I saw the Ford headers, I didn't even bother to install them.
What you get looks very different than that picture, and they aren't that much better than stock.

By the time you ceramic coat them, and buy the spark plug sleeves--you are about even.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

For $400 vs the TMH, there is no comparison. The flanges on the TMH's are far thicker, they actually show gains vs. stock since nearly all the tubes are the same length. Plus the sound is amazing. I wouldn't trade em for anything.

Here is Bobs Info on this site:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147452

 

[UNTAMND]

No
I have held both in my hands, once I saw the Ford headers, I didn't even bother to install them.
What you get looks very different than that picture, and they aren't that much better than stock.

By the time you ceramic coat them, and buy the spark plug sleeves--you are about even.

Thanks for the reply about seeing both in person, its good info to have. If i could afford the TMH id go for them, but like I said, id rather make a turbo kit for my Mountaineer. The headers I posted are stainless, so there would be no need for ceramic coating other then the little bit more heat retention of the ceramic.

Thanks again for the info, any more would be helpful also.

 

['97 V8]

TMH headers go for 589 by the way, not 700.

 

[410Fortune]

3 ports into 1 small tube = SUCKS
You may be saving $190 but you are not going to remove the stock bottleneck that is choking your power, forced induction or not.

HP cost $$$
TM or custom are the only choices for the 5.0L Explorer IMO, and the TM's are a bargain unless you can make custom headers yourself

 

[TheJMan]

If you go with a turbo setup, you risk damage to the engine if not tuned right, reduced reliability, and the engine is still trying to exhale out those awful stock manifolds.

The TM headers will not harm reliability, provide a nice mid-range and top-end gain, and offer lower underhood temperatures than using the stock or FMS manifolds.

I've had my headers on for about 8 months now and love them. They sound great and bumped up my highway mileage to over 20 mpg.

The only issue I have is that I have to run a premium fuel program in order to have enough low-end torque to scoot around town. The headers and 3" catback breathe so freely that it reduced low-end torque on the stock tune.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

^^^ Right, if you get headers, you need a restrictive (stock) exhaust to keep proper back pressure. Unfortunately my stock exhaust is long gone.

Back to the original question, a turbo kit would be much better used with a set of TMH's. To add power, remove the major bottlenecks, first then do other power adders. The factory manifolds severely restrict the v8s.

 

[410Fortune]

um my 2.5" single exhaust works just fine with a lightly modded 5.0L, TM headers and stock down pipes/cats

3" single is just too big to keep low end torque

 

[MountaineerGreen]

um my 2.5" single exhaust works just fine with a lightly modded 5.0L, TM headers and stock down pipes/cats

3" single is just too big to keep low end torque

Right, I have 2.5" single now, but had to change out from a high flow muffler to a "turbo" to keep the low end torque. But then again, I dont have my secondary cats, the guy at the muffler shop talked me in to cutting them off. :thumbdwn:

 

[410Fortune]

no secondary cats for me, , 2.25" pipe back from the down pipes to a double inlet single 2.5" outlet muffler Flo Pro
This setup works great!
I was going to go 3" but my exhaust guy talked me out of it and he really knows his stuff!

I have a similar setup on my BII but with a 3" outlet and definatley lost a bit of low end compared to the Ex, but since the BII weighs 1200# less it still scoots in comparison

 

[UNTAMND]

If you go with a turbo setup, you risk damage to the engine if not tuned right, reduced reliability, and the engine is still trying to exhale out those awful stock manifolds.
QUOTE]

If i were to build a TURBO setup, the stock exhaust manifolds would be tossed in favor for a stainless turbo header. I would only need the aftermarket headers if i were to do a Supercharger. I know the stock exhaust manifolds/headers suck, ive already turned then super glowing red while doing dumb stuff.

Right now im building a stainless catback that is dual 2.5 inlet and single 3" outlet, I oughta take some pictures and post them up. If you want to see some of the work ive done, look at my website, my single turbo mustang is ont here with some build pics.

 

[tktrain]

3" catback on my X

I've been running a 3" catback system with the FMS headers since 1998. I think I had about 300 miles on the truck at the time. My exhaust guy has been building custom and racing systems for about 30 years now, and I trust him completely. He suggested the 3" cat back system due to going with a relatively quiet Walker twin 2" inlet and 3" outlet "turbo" muffler. (I wanted a pretty quiet system) Also, while I can't dispute the greater potential in the TM headers, the FMS units are a significant improvement over the OEM header/manifolds on the early X's with their crimps and crush bends to clear the factory bolt running machines. The FMS units were the only headers available at that time. I spent about two hours with a die grinder fixing all of the manufacturing imperfections on my set, things like sloppy welds and tubing joints that protruded into the gas flow paths.

The system is working very well with the E303 cam and the 1.7:1 Cobra rockers.

 

[X6StringerX]

I have a KKM CAI and 2.5" true duals with glasspacks and all four factory cats. TMs are part of my plan and I understand that Bob will do two different collector sizes. (2.25?, 2.5?) Anyways, I was wondering if it would be wise to have my rear cats removed after I install the TMs given that I only have an aftermarket intake. I'd like to get a chip/tuner if that makes any difference.


Also, about backpressure. I know a lot of people are mixed on this topic. I recall reading a very professionally written website about the confusions involving backpressure. As a matter of fact, I think someone on this forum linked the site in another thread. Anyways, everything that was said in the write-up was denouncing the idea of backpressure and was very convincing. It was very believeable... or atleast an interesting read. It has swayed quite a few people. I was always of the believe that bigger isn't better because the air cools and condenses the further away from the engine it travels. So, in essence, if you have 3" pipe, the air has a lot more room to cool and become heavier, thus moving slower. For our 5.0s, I would think that 2.5" would be ideal... probably 2.25 for the 4.0s.

What do you guys think?

 

[lowflyingbird]

Question, I think I very well may have bad cats, or atleast one. Reason, I cant make it break about 4800rpm, EVER!! plus I have Hi- Mi like 164k. I'm going to change out a bad pass side exhaust manifold soon. I'm going from welded (cracked) stainless factory pipes to newer factory cast manifolds. Is there a common cat that goes bad? I can only guess that its the upper pass side cat. I do hear alot of people removing the rear cat section,Does it get clogged? wouldn't I need the mil eliminators then?
Please reply
Thanks
Keith

Please reply

 

[tktrain]

Regarding the 3" single catback, If you compare the crossectional area of the pipe to a dual exhaust system you see what size single system compares to a dual system. A 3" pipe has an area of 7.07 square inches while the area of one 2 1/8" diameter pipe is 3.55 square inches or 7.10 square inches for two pipes. The relative velocities for the two systems would be virtually identical. Most people would agree that a 2 1/8" dual system is not too large for a 5 liter, especially one that is essentially in 1993 Cobra trim like mine is with the E303 cam and the not perfect but a solid improvement over OEM, FMS headers.

 

[410Fortune]

The bottom line is get rid of those factory manifolds ASAP hahaha you could barely get a finger in the pinched portion where the banks meet together, I bet those suckers would choke a V6
You are only as good as your smallest bottle neck but there is such a thing as over sized on a NA engine for both intake and exhaust.
The setup you just listed would perform very well, you may want to consider an X pipe in there too After driving with the E cam for a bit I find it REALLY improves the upper end of the GT40, unfortunatley for me with 33" tires and 3.73 gears (for now) I cant take advatange of that powerband too well, but the E cam = happy I may have to do the same upgrade to the BII
My problem with true duals is finding the room under the truck with the t case, gas tank, etc etc so a single exit works great
Here in Denver every little bit helps, the rule of thumb is it would take a boost of 6 psi to get my performance levels to where the same NA setup would perform at sea level

 

[tktrain]

Hey 410 Fortune, thanks for the comments. I'd like to try an X pipe, but have been leary of the cost vs. the gain.

You're from the Denver area? I visit out there almost every year, we have cousins that live around Berthoud and Loveland. We try to spend a week every summer up in Summit and Park county while we are there. We hit some of the FWD roads while out there.

 

[410Fortune]

hell yes, Loveland has one of my favorite lakes

 

[Turdle]

hell yes, Loveland has one of my favorite lakes

Horsetooth by chance??