HHO: Is it alchemy? Or will it improve gas mileage on a ’99 4.0 SOHC Explorer?

[joefnh]

Thunderhorse, the heat is why I went to a PWM design. Using DC current will work but:

--Will get hot as it does require a lower resistance in the water which will generate heat

--As more amperage is drawn the efficiency of the system goes down. Remember 25 amps at 12 volts = 300 watts. Thats a lot of heat for an acrylic box.

Also 1 horsepower = 746 watts, at 300 watts you are using something greater than 1/2 horsepower to run your HHO generator. Given inefficiencies of the alternator etc. probably closer to 1 hp or about 746 watts

For your system to 'break even' it would need to produce about 2.5 cubic feet per minute, to have a gain in mileage it would have to exceed 2.5 CFM

--Joe

 

[Blacksheep Josh]

lol. i have no idea what's going on. i know the basics of it, but y'all are getting into the nitty gritty.

i'd like to install/make my own, but this is insane! i think i'll wait until someone comes up with a good one that works and buy it. lol

i'm just scared to install it, in case something goes bad... my luck is "if something can go wrong, it will"

 

[thunderhorse]

joefnh

yep that why it's still in the testing stage. but like my wife says " it does keep me off the streets"

 

[thunderhorse]

joefnh

I was also toying around with the idea of using an inverter and using AC to power things.

 

[thunderhorse]

ummm to run the truck on just HHO would require greater quantities than I think we can make with just our little cells but if the HHO can make the gasoline more efficient that has got to help and I think that by making the gasoline burn better that 13-18 percent efficient you won't need 2.5 CFM to get a positive result

 

[greyphox]

Al, when are you taking your next road trip? I'm sure you are aware that several of us are eagerly awaiting your first round results (40mpg here we come!).

What type of test procedures are you planning on doing to determine the effectiveness of the HHO; as in how do you plan on singling this mod out from the myriad others you have done?

 

[aldive]

Al, when are you taking your next road trip? I'm sure you are aware that several of us are eagerly awaiting your first round results (40mpg here we come!).

Soon.

What type of test procedures are you planning on doing to determine the effectiveness of the HHO; as in how do you plan on singling this mod out from the myriad others you have done?

The first test will be a round trip run to Gainesville, FL ( ~ 200 miles each way ). The first leg will be without the HHO generator hooked up and the return leg will be on HHO.

 

[thunderhorse]

Al
have you done anything to the o2 sensor, or map yet? on mine the computer seems to add fuel to compensate for the lean mix with HHO.

 

[gijoecam]

I've got to ask a dumb question... Is the theory that the hydrogen being added to the intake will burn, or is the theory that the added oxygen will increase combustion efficiency? Just thinking out loud here... Won't adding oxygen to the intake stream mean that the engine needs to add more fuel to maintain a stoichiometric ratio? Won't adding the oxygen make it less efficient?

By the same token, how much of an effect would the free hydrogen have on the ignition? If those two suppositions are correct, is the added efficiency from the hydrogen enough to compensate for the loss of efficiency from the added oxygen?

Again, not looking to argue, just looking for some logic here....

 

[aldive]

Al
have you done anything to the o2 sensor, or map yet? on mine the computer seems to add fuel to compensate for the lean mix with HHO.

No, not yet.

I am monotoring O2 function as well as A/F ratio. So far so good.

Hopefully a road test this weekend.

 

[zpexploder]

vacuum pressure

The HHO generator has been installed only one day and I am already modifying it.

I am not pleased with the location of the HHO inlet in the intake.

I took off the Mac intake tube and drilled a hole ( the size of the ¼” barbed fitting ) at the bend in the tube just before the throttle body.

I used Loctite epoxy to attach a ¼” double barbed brass fitting ( shortened on one end ) to the hole and moved the ¼” tubing to this new inlet.

This made a much cleaner looking install.

Are you getting the intake vacuum you need to cause bubbling / intake?

 

[aldive]

Are you getting the intake vacuum you need to cause bubbling / intake?

Yes. always have.

 

[aldive]

Another way to avid the problem/possible problem with the O2 sensors is to force open loop operation ( via PCM tune ).

Even though open loop is detrimental to optimal fuel economy, I shall write a tune and give this a try.

 

[aldive]

Question for those of you with HHO generators running now or in the past:

What is the temperature of the units when operating?

Thanks ....

 

[captainjimrod]

hho

Hi Al, I purchased the manual, and my friend purchased a kit and connected it according to specs, it worked fine for over 100 miles with apparent improved mileage, but after a while jar exploded, no damage. Have you heard of that happening before? He used a jar he purchased on the internet ebay.
Jim

 

[aldive]

Hi Al, I purchased the manual, and my friend purchased a kit and connected it according to specs, it worked fine for over 100 miles with apparent improved mileage, but after a while jar exploded, no damage. Have you heard of that happening before? He used a jar he purchased on the internet ebay.
Jim

Jim, was it a Ball canning jar?

 

[Pensa]

Hi Al, I purchased the manual, and my friend purchased a kit and connected it according to specs, it worked fine for over 100 miles with apparent improved mileage, but after a while jar exploded, no damage. Have you heard of that happening before? He used a jar he purchased on the internet ebay.
Jim

That sounds like it was producing too much heat. After all HHO is is a flammable gas and if the heat reached critical temps it would ignite. You also have to make sure your connections are tight and won't spark (if internally connected).

One cause of over heating is too much baking soda in the mix. Yes it will produce more gas but it will also produce more heat.

A bubbler should be used to prevent a misfire from getting back to the jar creating the gas.

Any of the above could cause the jar to explode.

 

[aldive]

Hi Al, I purchased the manual, and my friend purchased a kit and connected it according to specs, it worked fine for over 100 miles with apparent improved mileage, but after a while jar exploded, no damage. Have you heard of that happening before? He used a jar he purchased on the internet ebay.
Jim

Jim, what kit were you'll using?
What did you use for electrolyte? How much?

 

[CDW6212R]

I am watching this also, and only thinking of the logic rarely. It seems to me that the normal conditions are taken care of well with the PCM(75%nitrogen/20%oxygen etc).

The HHO system used will alter the incoming air chemical structure. The ideal A/F ratio should likely turn out to be different for an engine with HHO, versus without it.

Both oxygen and hydrogen are fuels, and the PCM works with O2 sensors to determine normal air inlet A/F ratios. I can't think of anything simple that will alter the PCM A/F ratios as needed for HHO. A special PCM that monitored another sensor for H/O inlet gases would be an idealistic answer. It seems that we are at a point similar to where 86-93 Mustang guys were when they altered engine parts. How to trick the PCM to do what is needed, that's the problem.

 

[thunderhorse]

Al
My HHO generator (cell) runs 150-160 degrees at 20 amps.