ideas for yet another prerunner variant

[WidgetTrac]

I started to kojack a similar thread, but then I figured my goal may be different enough to cloud the water, so...

I'm another one who's thinking about trying to stuff 35's under a 2wd ST, but i'm looking at it from the perspective of getting as much clearance as possible underneath, while raising the cab and bed as little as possible, so instead of body lift, I was thinking spindles and twist to get 5-6" in front, and maybe something like SOA and lowering shackles in the rear to get 2-4" in the rear, and also to get the springs, shackles, and those ginormous shock brackets up out of the way. I'd actually prefer the front to sit a little higher - it's heavier and hits the bumps first, so I figure it needs more clearance, plus the bed and tailgate are more user friendly when they're closer to the ground and tilted down a little.

I have 35's as a target because tires are the only way I see to get the very lowest parts of the chassis up away from things like rocks and stumps, and the diameter/cost ratio seems to point strongly to 35/12.5/15 on an 8" steel. I have 4.10's now, with a trac-loc I took from my mustang and rebuilt extra tight, and I figure it would be better to get tires first, rather than put in 4.88's on worn out stock rubber.

I am thinking about removing the grey lower plastic and trimming the grey part of the front away in the lower area in front of the wheel opening, and rolling back the edge of the folded sheetmetal seam at the front ofthe cab and where the lower edge of the fender bolts on.

Right now I just have TT and step delete, and a bunch of worn out stock parts that gotta go. The OEM setup has been great for city & hiway driving, and fair to good for towing - I gotta say I love my trac! - but since I bought it in march 2000 i've seen its limitations in mud and loose,uneven, rocky ground. Since tires and a lot of suspension stuff needs to be replaced now anyway, I figure why not make a few changes.

 

[WidgetTrac]

...and if that amount of lift & trim doesn't do it, then some sort of long travel setup.

I notice the front shocks have an extra-long rod, like a built-in extension, instead of being "all shock". If it was replaced with one that was the normal type, it should give more droop extension with the same compressed length (and bigger reservoir?) so with TT lift it would allow a little more down travel for just the price of new shocks, if I'm understanding correctly. Then maybe a bit more twist could be had, until the UCA's or ball joints started binding.

Also wondering if ranger coil spring LCA's fit the bushing mounts on the ST frame, and if 2nd gen spindles fit the ball joint studs, and are there full lengtj headers that will clear the firewall, and upper intake swap options, and maybe high ratio rockers or a head.swap, and... nevermind.

for now, if anybody has advice or opinions as to the plausibility and/or practicality of the overall concept, as well as tech specifics, then fire away!

 

[FROADER]

You can fit 35s no problem without lifting it very high, but the problem is going to be being able to use travel if you're actually going to "use" it driving fast in the desert.

You best bet would be to do something like this - http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309765

 

[MidnightRebel07]

Check out the ST ad I just posted, it's pretty much exactly what you wanna do to your Trac.

 

[LONO100]

if you want to fit 35"s and run it fast in the desert should plan on some spindles up front and soa in the back. this will keep you from lifting the body but give you some good travel. if you run 35's i would suggest going to 4.88 gearing and a locker too. this will give you a world of difference once you hit the dirt. a locker is a must if you will be running it in the sandy stuff.

 

[WidgetTrac]

LOL @ myself - I guess I shouldn't have said "prerunner", clearly this has been misinterpreted!

It's almost inconceivable that I would ever be doing any desert racing, but it's almost certain that I would be hauling A over rough bouncy roads, and also a good bet that I might drive inappropriately fast in places most people don't think a 4x2 has any business being - I just think the extra momentum helps keep from getting stuck... basically, I flex the OEM setup to it's limits and then some, so I don't want to go backwards in terms of functionality, but I also don't need race hardware...

The camburg entry level kit looks about right for my wants, and after deducting what I'd be spending on edge spindles and moog upper arms, the cost would only be $1100 more. It comes with shocks too, so lets say $900, and I think it has limit straps and stainless brake lines too, so... that gets it down to maybe $750, but oops, I forgot about the massive wheel offset - now we need glass, and that kinda changes the whole game.

Back to reality - cheap edge spindles off Ebay, maybe some slotted Chinese rotors with zinc plating and ebc pads, SMS start with maxed out tortion twist and then drop it down if it turns out there's enough room.

 

[shooterdude199]

Just remember our brake sizes are smaller than the ranger. Many of the ranger guys don't like running lift spindles because the necks on the spindle or something snapped. If for the looks by all means go for it. But if wheel travel is what you want, its really tough to get without heavily modifying the suspension. I.e uniball uppers, shock hoops, coilovers etc. even with my coilovers installed I realized I dont have very much travel. Just about the same as the stock suspension. I'm doing shock hoops in the next 3 weeks or so but our trucks are very tough to work with lol

*edit: didn see your second post but I think you should try for the camburg kit. Comes with everything too.

 

[JohnnyO]

Dixon Bros. makes a true long-travel 2wd kit too. Costs $2500 but that's still a bunch less than their 4wd kit.

http://www.dixonbrosracing.com/content/view/6/2/

 

[interscope8]

a locker is a must if you will be running it in the sandy stuff.

You're the first person Ive heard say that! Most the guys on DesertRangers wouldn't agree. They seemed to not like a possible lock up during a turn...

Just curious why you say a locker would be a need... :scratch:

 

[MidnightRebel07]

Because if you're trailin' thru sandy areas it will get deep and you will need to airdown and either have a buddy with a winch or have a locker so you're not one legging it. When I lived in Stanfield, Oregon I had a couple times running thru the desert wishing I had a locker. High speed desert racing is a whole other thing, some guys I knew had lockers and some just had LSD's. For any type of trailin' whether it's in mud, sand, rocky terrain, etc. a locker is your best friend in times of need.

 

[WidgetTrac]

Yeah, the locker is no big deal - i.ve changed out a few 8.8 diffs, it.s way easier than a gear swap, which I plan to do anyway, and I also want to do an OEM rear disc, and try to space it out with longer axles, but that's another project. My trac-loc is not the sucky stock trac-loc you find behind a virgin diff cover. A little tweaking of the clutches and steels and omission of friction modifier yields a much different animal, and I also have an auburn LSD i.m not using, but at some point I might want Detroit, or trac-tec, or whatever they're called now. Ratchet action!

But for now i.m going to run 4.10's and LSD.

Those with 35's, does your suspension travel allow the top of the tire to go all the way up into the top of the front wheelwell under full cumpression,, so it doesn't hit the bump stop until just before the tire would hit the plastic wheelwell liner (assuming it's still there), or does the bumpstop stop it when the tire is still several inches or feet below the top of the fender opening? Those with 4 or 4.25" backspace, do you think you could cut it a hair closer on front, maybe 4.5 or 5" BS?


Do coil-front ranger lower arms bolt on? Is that what you use with coilovers?

 

[OffTrac]

Those with 35's, does your suspension travel allow the top of the tire to go all the way up into the top of the front wheelwell under full cumpression,, so it doesn't hit the bump stop until just before the tire would hit the plastic wheelwell liner (assuming it's still there), or does the bumpstop stop it when the tire is still several inches or feet below the top of the fender opening? Those with 4 or 4.25" backspace, do you think you could cut it a hair closer on front, maybe 4.5 or 5" BS?

I haven't been able to get it lifted on the tractor yet to find out exactly where I'm on this issue but at full compression, I am getting the wheel well a little at some points, usually when the wheel is turned. I suspect it is at the front of the tire on the one that is being turned "into" the wheel well. I'll have to get it lifted on the tractor and cycled through all the situations to be sure, though.

Sorry my info and pictures are pretty limited so far but I hope to get better info/pics in the next few weeks. Here's at some compression, not quite at the bumpstops but I'm not sure how much more I had to go.

Here's another compression picture but the goal here was finding out where I needed to trim the rocker panel. I didn't pay attention to how much it was up in there but I know there was still some room for upward travel. I was being quick about it and just trying to get it drivable at that point. Again, I'll try to update soon.

As for 5" backspacing, I really doubt it. 4.5" may be pushing it. I was told no to 4.25" though and I now think it's perfect and glad I didn't listen. I'll try to get some pictures at full lock on either side to show where that puts everything.

Hope this is at least a little helpful.

 

[WidgetTrac]

Gawd, I hate this #&@%!!! Phone!!! I have painstakingly typed and subsequently accidentally deleted 5 or 6 full page replies on this stupid tiny keyboard! Always when I'm about 95% finished too... Guess I should submit each paragraph separately

...only internet I have now though.

 

[WidgetTrac]

Very helpful, thx - will embellish trw

 

[WidgetTrac]

Fabtech says no more than 3.75 backspace with their spindles, but there's a different looking kind on Amazon that's supposedly made by "Airbagit", although i'm thinking that's just the seller. The Amazon/airbagit spindles say they use f150 outer bearings for more beef at the spindle tip, and the knuckle section is shaped differently, looking to me like it might offer more wheel/tire clearance. Also, it SAYS to use wheels with the factory offset! That means 4.5 BS with a 7" wheel, 5" BS with an 8" wheel, and6" BS with a 10" wheel!!!! Seems unlikely, unless they (the Amazon airbagit spindles, that is) also increase track width - which I'd like to avoid. Oh, they're also way more reasonably priced than the fabtechs. The $260 ones on Ebay look like maybe old fabtechs, so i'm leaning tower the ones on Amazon for the bigger bearings and clearance, but id like more into first... the amazon page has basically zero tech info and just a small pic.

 

[WidgetTrac]

In the first pic, how fast could you hit that with your current trimming & shocks? obviously I can't see the terrain outside the pic, but let's say it was basically flat above and below, and you just had that little rise or dropoff to cross. I,m not saying I would want o be jumping or anythong, but just wondering if you have to take it slow and keep the steering straight, or if you can come over that dropoff at a speed where you almost catch air, and then crank a hard left just as the front end is comingdown, or where in between? Do you have lowered front bumpstops? Can you turn as sharp as stock? (my girls 02I mounty can turn freakishly sharp!) I didn't see any radical trimming in your pics, but the in your 2nd pic it looks like sheetmetal work is needed!? Are there some "after trimming" pics I missed?

What I have in mind would be a setup where, at the bumpstop, the top of the tire would be right up at the top of the wheelwell, with just enough clearance to allow for tire wobble relative to the wheel, regardless of whether the steering is straight. from your pic, it looks possible with wheels straight, but wondering about turned.

 

[OffTrac]

Your backspacing cannot increase like that just because the width of the wheel changes. If you can use up to 4.5" backspacing on a 7" wide wheel, you can still only use up to 4.5" backspacing on a 10" wide wheel. The wider wheel is essentially going to mean more wheel outside the hub but it does not change how much space you have to the inside of the hub that you can fill with a wheel. Hope that makes sense.

First of all, that is a hill on either side. Here's the backside. Kinda hard to tell in the picture but it's about the same depth.

But if we pretend it was flat to the rear and in front, I'd probably just drive through it at offroad speed. That's slow but I wouldn't have come to a stop and crawled over it, if that's what you're asking. I may be able to get video Wednesday of driving around our pond site (that's what this is) and you'll be able to see the suspension cycling. That's also when I had already planned to get it on the tractor and look for more rubbing opportunities and take pictures.

I have stock bumpstops. Turning radius is good. In normal driving conditions, I just drive around and never have to worry about an embarrassing rubbing moment. Lock to lock, even at speed with a little body roll (no sway bar), I have no rubbing.

That second picture is pre-cutting. I was seeing where I needed to trim out. I do have some pictures of the trimming I did. It's in a thread called "35" KM2s Installed" or something like that.

 

[WidgetTrac]

That's why I was skeptical about the 6" BS working, but since they spec'd the offset instead of BS, it could be interpreted that way... It could also be interpreted to mean that their spindles only allow you to have 3" backspace, so 'ya better get some skinny 5-1/2" WIDTH wheels with OEM offset, or something crazy like that - the point being that they should have just specified the maximum backspace for 15's, 16's, 17's... instead of telling buyers to use OEM offset - that's almost more like a CYA legal disclaimer than a critical fitment dimension.

 

[WidgetTrac]

...also, I just realized they mean stock ranger edge offset, whatever that is. Another reason they should just say the BS.

Hopefully it WILL allow 4.5", because I was thinking 15x10 with 4.5" BS would fit tight but still ok on the back down close to the wheel where the tire is more stable, but at the back shoulder where there is more wobble it would be pulled out a little more than it would be on an 8" wheel, so I would have a hair more clearance there and the stability of a 10" wheel, and with only 1" offset - practically right down the middle, for decent bearing wear and wheels would be as far in the wheelwells as possible while allowing clearance for full articulation. The downside would be that the outside shoulder would be further out than it would with an 8" wheel, so i'd have to bang in the seam at the front of the firewall with a big hammer (or maybe something more refined) and cut a bunch of plastic... that would work for me - does it sound like it would work & fit like i'm thinking? ...just need to find out what size the stock EDGE wheels are and verify specs with seller. fingers crossed!

 

[OffTrac]

Sounds like you're on the right path. I cant' say how much you'd have to trim the fender but I cut all that sheetmetal there but was able to keep the facing of the plastic. Here's the best picture of the trimming I have. You'd probably have to do a little more than me on that area, but probably not by much.

The good thing about the 10" wide wheel is that you'd have more width but less height so the issue about stuffing into the wheel well would be helped by that.