NA5R55E2-3FT (Not Another 5R55E 2-3 Flare Thread!)

[Fredness]

Yes, that's what it is, TCC.
Going to pull the VB today to see if I pinched/misaligned one of the paper gaskets during the install. The CVB worked perfectly the last time it was installed and there was no TCC code.
Codes clear with the X3, only to return after about 5 min of driving.
Harness was not replaced, it could be the TCC has gone out - it's electrical, that is always a possiblity.
Best case, the TCC connector was bumped when i was wrestling with the new pan.
Worst case, I hosed the separator plate gaskets.

Either way, there are 100 miles on the clock with the filter and there were no changes, O/D flashing after the trans hits 5th (and the TC should lock).

I do have the new Ford bonded separator plate - If I don't find anything, I'll just modify it to match the CVB plate and call it a day.

"Thermo-blocker" was not instaled, I wanted to test everything before, so I'd have some data to compare. As mentioned, I want to get the ATF to 180*f as soon as possible, and keep it there. With before/afters I can make better decissions. More work, but I'm up for it.

 

[Fredness]

BooYah... (Linkage)
Torque issues from a bunched/malformed gasket.
Replacing the following:
F5TZ-7A191-A Gasket Assy Trans Oil Pan
FT 134 Screen Assy, Motorcraft transmission filter
1L5Z-7Z490-CA 2001/2002 4.0L-SOHC - Plate - Valve Body Separator
and doing the following mods to the bonded separator plate:
One TCC port closed off – EPC overboost fix from Ford.
OD apply/4th gear engagement boost (Sonnax/CVB).
TCC exhaust hole enlargement (reduce TCC slip and code P0741).
Direct Clutch and Servo Release Feed hole enlargement.
EPC solenoid feed enlargement.
Pressure Regulator balance orifice enlargement.
Line pressure to converter feed orifice enlargement.
(See Sonnax directions in 37947-EZ kit)

Should be in prime shape tomorrow.

 

[ranger7ltr]

Glad you found the gasket problem... I was thinking the gaskets were a one use only item too...Sorry you had to drop the vb again to find that out... BTW, how many times have you dropped the pan and/or vb now? Does the drain plug make it easier to do?

I would like to see you use your drill on the stock pan to drain the tranny... That is too funny...I soooo eyed my cordless drill until I added a drain plug to mine...

And I am interested to see your data on the getting the tranny temp up and maintaining it at 180 f...Thanks for compiling that data so we can mod our trucks to make them run better...

 

[Fredness]

I've been in there 4x now:
1 - to "fix" the flare
2 - to go back to stock after I found the shavings and have the dealer do it
3 - to go back to the CVB for better performance than the stock VB
4 - to fix the gasket issue

I've learned something valuable each time I was in there and felt TOTALLY comfortable this time - no doubt this was the last time for this issue (we'll see).

The drain plug is Sooooo nice, I was able to dump the fluid straight into the pan, with out any splashing, spilling or overflow.

Draining the stock pan with a drill is potentially dangerous, but I was so tired of the mess, I thought heck, I have the kit, why not.

My buddy the amateur photographer (AKA: Guy with the kick-ass macro digital camera) took some great pictures of the damage – it is pretty amazing. As mentioned, the gaskets expand, but at an uneven rate. My theory, which I believe you will see in the photos (posted soon), is this; the gasket bunched under the bolts, messing up the torque specs on the VB. The 30+ mile test drive was perfect, and nothing showed up until the following day – after the trans had completely cooled. Then this is when I think the issues with the torque appeared, through the contraction when cooling.
When I opened it back up, the VB had some bolts that had some tension on them as I was removing them, others did not. The worst was the separator plate to VB – the 3 Torx bolts were just past finger tight.
The New Ford bonded separator plate was modified for all the good stuff (above) and feels GREAT. The bonded gasket installed cleanly with no issues and did not have to be shifted a dozen times to get all the bolts started. The test drive was firm and quick with no noises, and, more importantly, no flashing light. If it is still out tomorrow, I’ll consider this case closed…
I used the Sonnax instructions and drilled all of the holes using American Wire Gauge Drills that were as close as possible to the ones call for. I heavily beveled both of the “orifice” holes, and the only one I didn’t do was the 4th gear engagement, as it was already out to Sonnax specs.

The red arrows mark the pins we made to align the PML pan. Using two m8x1.25-60mm bolts, we cut the heads off, slightly tapered the ends, and cut slots so they could be removed with a screwdriver. This cut off more than 30 minutes of monkeying with the alignment – it went straight in. Nice.
The circle is the torque pattern held upsidedown by a magnet. Making the torquing very easy as I didn't have to slide out to get numbers/locations. I'm going to do some paint.net work to make the numbers "rightside up".

Using the old Ford separator plate, I screwed some 2x4 ends pieces to raise it up 2" and used that as a template to store the bolts - that was a big help - not as nice as the spare VB, but nice.

With the PML pan, it took 10 quarts to get up to the cross hatch area on the dipstick when hot. 10 quarts, sweet.

 

[Fredness]

6 Quarts to get up to the line the first time.
10 Quarts this time.
Pan is advertised as "3 Quarts over stock" and I went from a 4x4 pan (larger than 4x2) to this. Looks like it should be "At least 3 Quarts over stock".
Not that I'm complaining....

Test drive was awesome.
Will know how things went today.

 

[Fredness]

No OTA (Oil-To-Air) External Cooler, PML Pan, CVB, Ext. Filter:

Air Temp 56*f
Trans temp 123* to 176*f - from EPC Solenoid Connector Thermistor (Fluid Temp in pan)
No change in shift points/EPC

Here's some new info:
With an InfraRed Thermometer:

Start:
Trans Pan: 123*
Coolant: 140*
Air: 56*
Radiator:
Inlet tank: 78*
Outlet tank: 77* (Indicative of no flow - Engine T-Stat closed)
Radiator Trans Cooler:
Inlet: 83* (Indicative of no flow from trans)
Outlet: 84*
Filter: 85* (+/- 1*f of Oil-To-Water Cooler Outlet)

End:
Trans Pan: 168*
Coolant: 186*
Air: 56*
Radiator:
Inlet tank: 141*
Outlet tank: 90*
Radiator Cooler:
Inlet: 106* (Indicative of ATF flow)
Outlet: 99*
Filter: 99* (Same as Outlet)

From that we get:
-The PML pan (and possibly the Ext. Oil Filter, to a lesser degree) is good for >6*f of temperature drop in pan temps in hilly terrain @ 40MPH.
-The added fluid takes longer to heat up, and longer to cool down. After a peak load, the trans temperature continued to rise for 14 seconds after the coolant dropped, and held for an additional 22 seconds before dropping the same amount. I believe this is due to the >3 quarts of added fluid and the thicker pan. Fluid stays warm in pan LONG after engine was shut down, there was a lapse of 4 hours between runs and the pan start temp was 123*f vs 104*f in the previous run.
-Again, the cooler is unable to keep up with the transmission heat, as the radiator is at 90* and the trans is at 99*.

ATF External Filter and Radiator Outlet temps were taken at 4 times, start, 777, 1653 and End (since they can't be read manually in motion) - this graph just connects those points with a dotted line - the Radiator line (solid) is based on the rise in ECT, but is assumed at best.

Remember, this is with NO External Cooler, so it is a direct comparison to the last graph.

 

[Fredness]

2 solid days without issue - file this case as closed.
Going to update with data logs from the cooler install using 1/2 NPT unions in place of the External T-Stat and also with the External T-Stat.

 

[ranger7ltr]

Have you had a chance to do any data logging on the tranny temps? I have gotten my stacked plate cooler and external filter hooked up and will be doing the vb replacement soon...

I do wish the tc had a drain plug so I could drain the fluid out of the tc and replace it too...

 

[Fredness]

Doing the Cooler this weekend, the 3/8" Tube to 6 AN ends that I had were a compression fitting type that is actually supposed to be used on 3/8" aluminum tube for 25psi or less (carburetor fuel line). So I had to order 3/8" tube nuts, tube sleeves, 6AN couplers and a 37* flaring tool (<$50 for all). This will be near bullet proof and good to 250+psi.
Shooting tomorrow, so Sunday is going to be "Plumbing-fest".

 

[ranger7ltr]

Good luck to ya...

Hope that all your hardware fits and mounts up properly...Look forward to the outcome of course!!!

 

[Fredness]

Pix to follow - but in the mean time you will have to use your imagination
The external trans filter was removed, so I could install the new cooler set up. The factory lines were scuffed with a green scrubby to get them smooth and clean. I then measured and marked the locations for cuts - the second time was the charm. I had to rebend some of the factory cooling lines, just make sure they are bent around something, otherwise they will kink.
The thermostat is between the oil to water cooler (in the radiator) and the oil to air cooler installed in front of the AC Condenser. I used the condenser mounting bracket, and one of the existing holes - only had to drill one hole. There is a welded lip that helps align the new bracket - pure luck. The bracket is diamond tread (what else?), and the rubber isolators are used to hold the bracket in place. Blue lock-tite was used, along with the washer, lockwasher and nut. The thermostat is connected via the rubber isolators, and the trans side is 37* flare fittings, sleeves and 6 AN tube nuts. This allows for some movement/vibration and that won't disturb the thermostat or mount.
The opposite end that goes to the cooler is 90* end to Russell nylon braided hose to straight ends that attach to the cooler.
Hose assembly is simple, just watch that you don't scratch the aluminum ends - if so, Sharpie(r) to the rescue! Nylon braided line, while not as flashy as braided stainless, is MUCH easier to assemble, the keys are assembly lube and clean cuts.
Test drive was uneventful (my favorite!), 40+ miles, no leaks. At the 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and end marks, I stopped and checked temperatures. The fluid wasn't moving through the T-Stat until the 3/4 mark, the external temp of the T-Stat was 97*, the inlet to the cooler (bottom) was 97* and the top of the cooler (output) was 62*.
The factory cooler was good for a 20* temperature drop, this one appears to be good for at least 35*. Wow.

Will evaluate and watch for leaks. Tomorrow is data logging to compare to the previous runs on the same course, same loads and speeds. Will post the results here, but the picture will be in the appropriate threads above.

As of new? AN hose and fittings are the "bomb!" Clean install, outstanding look and (so far) 100% leak-free.

 

[Fredness]

Kick Ass OTA w/ T-Stat:
With an InfraRed Thermometer:

Start:
Trans Pan: 124*
Coolant: 182*
Air: 58*
Radiator:
Inlet tank: 88*
Outlet tank: 83* (Indicative of no flow - Engine T-Stat closed)
Radiator Trans Cooler:
Inlet: 86* (Low flow from trans)
Outlet: 80*
TStat:
Body: 90*
OTA Trans Cooler:
Inlet: 68* (No flow though OTA Cooler)
Outlet: 68*

End:
Trans Pan: 167* (171* PEAK)
Coolant: 196*
Air: 58*
Radiator:
Inlet tank: 167*
Outlet tank: 107*
Radiator Cooler:
Inlet: 133* (Indicative of ATF flow)
Outlet: 121* (Same as Radiator Outlet tank)
T-Stat
Body: 118* (Indicative of ATF flow)
OTA Cooler
Inlet: 83* (T-Stat wide open)
Outlet: 67*

So, the 35* drop with no T-Stat is WAY down to a 4* drop. But, the trans temp is rock solid stable (see below), and the pan stayed at 163 to 167 unless under a load (hills).

Before, cold and slow to warm.

After, quick to warm and stable under load.

This is the Explorer OTA Cooler - colder and less stable.

This is the New cooler, 167 to 172* - Nice and FLAT!

T-Stat input - 37* flare 6AN connection

90* ends to hose, and anti-vibration mount - to keep line vibration from causing issues.

Looking up at the T-Stat, with hoses.

From below...

Will get a better picture when the nose is back off.

 

[Fredness]

Here is the total damage, this is a blown up version of the others (shorter term and tighter window), so there is more "action".
----- "ECT" is just the Engine Coolant Temperature for reference.
----- "Stock" is just that - post rebuild with the Ford VB, 4x4 pan, no filter, factory cooler.
----- "Final Trans Temp" is post rebuild with the CVB, PML Pan, no filter, B&M cooler, Ext. T-Stat and lines.
----- "No OTA" is post rebuild with the CVB, 4x4 pan, external filter and no factory cooler.
----- "Desired" is just a flat 180* line for reference.

The CVB with the Sonnax mods made a MAJOR contribution to the cooling due to the increased flow. Note how only the "Stock" goes wild in the center, even with the external cooler! CVB is much more stable and shows a major drop, even with NO external cooler.
Larger B&M cooler and external T-Stat do not suffer from heat soak late in the run like all the others.

 

[tmarat]

Sorry for brining up this year old thread. You have opened the transmission 4 times

1 - to "fix" the flare
2 - to go back to stock after I found the shavings and have the dealer do it
3 - to go back to the CVB for better performance than the stock VB
4 - to fix the gasket issue

The flare was fixed with the new valve body and solenoids. The valve body that you purchased for 247$, did it include the solenoids also?
But what did the shop do? Replaced the servos, meaning the solenoids? And this fixed the transmission issue also? So you did not really need to replace the valve body?
Then other steps were for various mods etc.
I have almost no info on auto transmissions, just trying to understand.

 

[Fredness]

The flare was fixed with the new valve body and solenoids. Not for long, the added flow masked the symptoms.
The valve body that you purchased for 247$, did it include the solenoids also? Yes
But what did the shop do? Total rebuild under warranty
Replaced the servos, meaning the solenoids? Servos meaning servos, different parts.
And this fixed the transmission issue also? Yes, completely fixed
So you did not really need to replace the valve body? Correct, but the trans behaves SOoooo much better now with the CVB valve body and mods.

Almost 2 years later and it still shifts like a champ.

 

[ranger7ltr]

Questions about the servos?

Hello Fredness... Good to see you on here again...Well not good because of more trany problems though...Anyway did you change the servos or did the shop that rebuilt the tranny change them out? Of course I am gonna ask why weren't they changed when the tranny was rebuilt?

And did you see any wear on the servo body or the cap at all? Or was the rubber just brittle and not sealing like it should have? I am at a point of changing both of mine to see if they are the problem with the flaring issues I am seeing even after replacing the vb from Donny...

BTW I used your data logging to step it up and get my B&M stacked plate cooler functioning on my truck...I installed it years ago just never plumbed it...Now I have one less thing to worry about on this truck...

 

[Fredness]

Wow, there's a delay!
Servos were replaced when the trans was rebuilt, I never took the servo covers off.
Now at 140,000 (70,000 later) I'm getting a MASSIVE delayed shift out of first gear with more than 1/2 throttle applied, so it looks like I'm going in again.
This time it gets ZC servos and covers (if they aren't there already). Already have those parts, plus a MicroFelt filter and new pan gasket.

From what I'm reading 75K is pretty much standard, and I had hoped these mods would have prolonged the service life, but it appears that torque and a gasket are to blame.

Blue lok-tite on threads this time?
Synthetic gasket vs. paper?

 

[Fredness]

150,000 miles, including a camping trailer tow to SanFran and back at 80+ (OD Off on hills, O/D On flats).

To correct the above post - this was NOT a transmission issue, but a harmonic balancer failure that damaged the Crank Position Sensor - Replaced it (and added an ASP Power Pulley) and the issue was gone.

At 140,000 I dropped the pan, replaced the filter and torqued the valve body to find that ALL the bolts were off almost a full turn - This could LITERALLY be why these transmissions are failing: Failure to retorque the valve body with filter changes (no filter change would be even worse).

New Bosch Premium filter, Ford 5R55E Microfelt filter, MANY Qts of Ford MerconV ATF and all is well - shifts like new again.

 

[Fredness]

154,000 miles and I have a flashing O/D light w/ codes for "TCC stuck on" and similar issues as before.
The one thing in common was the TCC Solenoid.
Since the Solenoids were tested/used solenoids from CVB - I thought that the TCC may have failed. Your choices are to open the trans and TEST the solenoid, or open up the trans and REPLACE the solenoids. The later is just a LITTLE more difficult.
Dropped the pan, pulled the filter, and swapped ALL the Solenoids with a kit from USA Transmission Parts.

The first issue was the aftermarket stainless/ceramic coated Y-Pipe with High-Flow cats was rubbing on the PML Deep sump pan. There was no room to get a tool in there to drop the pan, and once all the bolts were finally out, the PML Deep sump pan was a total pain to remove - this was not an issue at 140,000 - before the Y-Pipe was swapped. Apparently aftermarket Y-Pipes are not deep-sump pan friendly - Just sayin'.

Pan was immaculately clean - no buildup or shrapnel like the incident at 70K miles (7 years, 4 months and 11 days ago - ...so not counting), the magnets were also clean and without issues.

I swapped the solenoids, installed a new 5R55E pan (bead blasted, threads for a drain plug were welded in from the INSIDE, ceramic coated in an Aluminum finish) and replaced the leaking OEM Cork gasket with an aftermarket rubber unit that retains the bolts making installation a breeze.

While I was there, I checked the torque on the bolts - more than half were less than the specified torque...
So, again, I'm thinking this goes back to torque... With time, and heat cycles, the bolts loosen and eventually the gasket shifts, tears or blows out.

Time will tell - parts on order (Bonded separator plate), and researching redoing ALL the mods done to the CVB/SONNAX/Superior updates/upgrades. Pix to follow...

See this thread.