Need replacement for Moog upper ball joint boots

[J_C]

I should clarify, that I'm interested in a boot for the Motorcraft upper control arm BJ, not Moog. The boot on mine disintegrated, but when that started happening, I packed it well with grease and there is minimal play in the BJ so I'm just going to reboot it.

I'm gonna have to measure mine... attempted to cancel the amazon order I just made but then I went out and took a look at it.

The original boot is far too disintegrated to measure, so just removed the chunks of it.

After getting the BJ loose from the knuckle and straightening it, boot length needed is about 21mm compressed, which is consistent with the boot height on the right (passenger) side upper control arm that I'd already replaced.

Upper based diameter 45.5mm, lower pin (stud) diameter 19.5mm, also consistent with the one in the right/passenger upper control arm. This is with rust/crud/grease removed, remeasured after I took the pics. Using Energy Suspension terminology it is (choose the next smaller size from):

Pin Opening Diameter 19.5mm
Base Opening Diameter 45.5mm
Height 21mm compressed

Again this is for the Motorcraft OE Upper Driver's Side BJ, not Moog.

I was a little surprised how easy it was to get this BJ out of the knuckle, prybar for the win! It might have also helped that months ago, I'd added the grease to the deteriorating boot, probably a little oil came out of the grease and ran down into the joint.

 

[J_C]

Got tired of looking around, settled for Prothane 191723. If they bulge too much when compressed, I'll trim some material off the base.

Pin opening 19.05mm (0.75 inches)
Base opening 44.45mm (1.75 inches)
Height 27.94mm (1.10 inches)

Ball Joint Dust Boots - Ford Mustang - Prothane 191723

Ford Mustang replacement Ball Joint Dust Boots made by Prothane. Lifetime Warranty. Ships Immediately. Part Number 191723

www.prothanesuspensionparts.com

Amazon product ASIN B003876QKK

 

[CDW6212R]

Hmm, that's a good bit of detail, thanks. I like the possibilities, the urethane should be tough, but sealing them I wonder about. The CA's move a lot, it's hard to keep a good seal around both seams of the BJ boots. I've noticed big gaps in those at various times, and mostly with the tires off. I'd love to be able to smear a little Ultra Black RTV around the top and bottom of each boot, after they are installed. But the RTV won't stretch a ton, that may not help at all if it just tears fast.

I have to rebuild my Mountaineer front suspension again, that's why I was after the boots(BJ's are not that old, or mileage). I might give the RTV a shot if the boots fit kind of closely with tires on the ground.

 

[J_C]

I have pretty good access to pack more grease into the BJ with the boot off, but I'll also pack the boot with grease, and if the stud doesn't seal well against the boot hole for it, I'm going to put an 0-ring there, on the outside of it to help. The big question is what is the ideal length of the boot. Obviously I don't want it to create a gap at full extension of the suspension (since these aren't accordian type boots), but I don't want extra bulge in it either as that seems to cause premature failure.

Granted, since it was easy to get the BJ stud out of the knuckle, and I've cleaned it off, and will add a grease film, I have less concerns about doing this job again if it fails and needs redone. Repeat repairs on something this age, are much easier if you're only dealing with a few years worth of rust instead of 25 years worth.... except my rear lower shock bolts, those freakin' things demand to be sheared off every time I touch them. Next time, I'm coating them in candle wax or something. Shocks aren't really necessary, right? Maybe I should just go stainless for the bolts/nuts and see if they hold up...

 

[CDW6212R]

That's funny, my left rear shock of my Mountaineer has never come off. I installed the four Edelbrock shocks in early 2004, the X-spec kit, and I couldn't get the lower left bolt off in 2006 when I swapped to Bilstein shocks. I could tell that bolt was likely going to have to be cut off, but the shock still worked fine. It doesn't take long for some parts to go bad or degrade too much, which is what this thread is about, poor quality Moog BJ boots.

 

[J_C]

I got the boots today and it looks sketchy, I mean they are the right size but I can't imagine them continuously making a good seal through the articulations of the suspension, since the top has no metal ring or groove to fit into. Even so, it still beats the disintegrated boot I had.

I may have to hack something... maybe a band around the top to hold it in place, IDK yet. I don't think a hose clamp is what I want because that causes a sharp edge at the boot. I'll sleep on it...

 

[Mbrooks420]

Why not just replace the ball joint? Eventually your time has to be worth something. How many times are you going to pop it free trying and purchasing different boots?

 

[CDW6212R]

I got the boots today and it looks sketchy, I mean they are the right size but I can't imagine them continuously making a good seal through the articulations of the suspension, since the top has no metal ring or groove to fit into. Even so, it still beats the disintegrated boot I had.

I may have to hack something... maybe a band around the top to hold it in place, IDK yet. I don't think a hose clamp is what I want because that causes a sharp edge at the boot. I'll sleep on it...

I can understand that, I recall always seeing a gap around the boots anytime I look at them. Only at ride height will there be minimal stretching of the boots, to create any gap. The newer small lower BJ boots look like a good tight fit, those are yet to judge given how new they are.

If the urethane boots do have a noticeable gap around them at droop or compression, I wonder if a piece of rubber tire inner tube could cover the gap well. I know it's a lot to do, we want a reliable solution, and the boots should not go bad so soon. A new BJ would be great, but at what cost, and how often.

 

[J_C]

Why not just replace the ball joint? Eventually your time has to be worth something. How many times are you going to pop it free trying and purchasing different boots?

I'm going to pop it free the one time that I already have. I was already doing brake work, just noticed the boot was now degraded more than I accept.

It's the factory control arm with built in (non-replaceable) BJ. Replacing a good BJ instead of boot, means delaying finishing up the vehicle, getting the upper control arm, fighting with the rusty fuel lines and brittle clips, fighting the rusty control arm bolts, getting a cam kit for an alignment, and getting an alignment. Meh, I think I'll just replace the boot and wait till the BJ actually needs replaced.

 

[J_C]

Got the Prothane 191723 boot on. It fits but if you leave the control arms hanging when you jack up the vehicle (jack stand on frame), the boot pulls down the back side of the BJ, not really off, still looks like it may seal against water and grime but does slip about 3mm. An accordion style boot like the original would have been better, but I'm not even sure how the original was held on as it had a lower metal clip but no upper clip... unless that rusted off years ago. There is not a substantial notch in the control arm for it to sit in either. It might be that there used to be one and there's a pressed in metal ring that's got squared edges, that long ago fused itself to the control arm, but I didn't want to push my luck testing that theory.

I put the jack under the control arm, got the control arm lifted a bit, slipped the boot back up, put the vehicle down and so far it's staying on and looks fine. I packed it full of grease till some squished out once I put it back into the knuckle, so it may be that even if it slips again, there's a lot of grease between anything getting in, and the BJ ball itself.

Not a perfect solution but beats the crumbles of the old one by a long shot. I'm content with this fix for now. It was a heck of a lot easier to do than getting the wheel well liner back in, I mean the entire plastic liner, not just the fabric flap on it. Seemed almost like it had shrunk or something but it was just a foam (noise dampening?) pad between it and the door hinge area, getting in the way until I repositioned it. To clarify, you don't need the wheel well liner out to do the reboot. I was getting a vibration from a brake line I'd replaced and had it off to get access to that.

 

[J_C]

Just had an interesting experience with Amazon.

Went to return the Energy Suspension 9.13130G boots and Amazon offered me a "Returnless Refund", a credit to the account in the form of a gift card balance, without my having to return the boots.

Apparently it costs them too much for the return shipping, processing, and possibly loss to relist and sell as a warehouse item at lower cost, so they just ate whatever their cost was for the boots. On the return page, I'd even chosen Bought By Mistake.

I'd been a customer there for many years but never had this happen, though of the very few items I've returned to them in the past, none were this low priced.

 

[swshawaii]

Same here with Amazon whom I've been a customer since 2007. Ordered one K7275 Moog end link to use the 7/16" bolt and nut with the ES 9.8103 poly bushings for a spare. Amazon seller sent me a Moog K700542 substitution with the "toy" white bushings instead. Requested a "sent wrong item" return and Amazon immediately issued a total refund stating not to return the item. I usually prefer eBay because of faster shipping, and refuse to pay Amazon Prime $139 annually or $14.99 monthly when I can usually get eBay orders slightly cheaper and faster. Not bashing Amazon because I think their customer service rocks.

 

[J_C]

^ I get a free month of Prime in mid Nov. every year, covering Black Friday and Christmas gift purchases. Certain products have a link to the free month offer in the upper right corner of the page, then when you click the popup box link, you can get the free month without having to buy that product. Can't provide a current example while I've got prime, only offered to those who don't. When I got it a week+ ago, was offered on this Anker Boulder LC90 flashlight page: Amazon product ASIN B01KH2JP5G
If what I'm ordering is in the local Amazon warehouse, can often get it the same day, or not much longer because of proximity to one of their larger hubs at CVG airport.

 

[swshawaii]

I always take advantage of Amazon's FREE trials for Prime. Go through my "saved" items and place a large order during the trial. I make a habit of removing credit and debit card info immediately after placing the order to prevent automatic Prime renewal.

 

[410Fortune]

So it looks like Delphi, ac delco (gold) and Dorman all make upper ball joints that will fit your aftermarket control arms?

I’m liking the new dorman heavy duty lower ball joints they are produced by a Canadian company called mas and they are for sure heavy duty with good boots clamped right with spring clamps, however as of right now they only offer the lowers.

The ac delco gold/professional have been good quality ball joints, that is likely what I would replace my Moog upper with AFTER you confirm they will fit (measure)

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