ORV Build: What would you do diff?

[Slowlyvverot]

derp

 

[Slowlyvverot]

I'm looking at replacing my axles with junkyard 4.10s after I get my tax return. I was torn on whether to get LS or open. So the factory LS isn't worth it?
To get the 4.10 I have to go to 2nd gen so I get the disc brakes anyway, which everyone seems to say is worth it.


As far as everyone else, the only other strong consensus is a winch is one of the best mods for your buck?

Well after 210,000 miles my LS is pretty much toast. I don't even think it worked at 180k when I started driving my Ex. And I don't have the option to swap in a locker in the rear unless I want to spend $$$ on one that replaces the carrier. With an open diff you can just buy a cheap lunchbox locker and throw it in there.

If I could start over with another RBV with what I know now (not much lol), my mods would be 31s, 2" springs front and rear and lockers front and rear.

 

[mounty71]

My biggest recommendation would be to skip drop brackets when lifting the front end, and go with cut and turned beams. My 91 explorer had drop brackets when i got it and they cracked from all the stress, and i know plenty of other people who have had the same problems.

 

[LBarr2002]

The main thing I regretted was the body lift. I ran it with 2" suspension lift and 32's for a while. When I wore out the 32's, I put new 33"s on it and they didn't fit. I threw a 3" body lift on it weeks before the 2006 Crozet trip, just to make the tires fit.

The bumpers and sliders were built to fit with the body lift. When I really started wheeling it, the rear leaf perches hung me on everything. So, I took off the 2" lift and did a 6" bronco II lift (soft flexy springs) and rear SOA. This made it too tall, but I didn't want to take the body lift off because I'd have to remake bumper mounts and sliders.

The best mod was the front Aussie. Mine had a LS rear that was worn out, but helped a little. I put the Aussie in the front early on. Later I geared it to 5.13 and put in a welded disk rear. It was mean then, but I got into Samurais and kinda lost interest. It was not very streetable any more either, and I ended up selling it to a friend.

 

[4x4junkie]

My biggest recommendation would be to skip drop brackets when lifting the front end, and go with cut and turned beams. My 91 explorer had drop brackets when i got it and they cracked from all the stress, and i know plenty of other people who have had the same problems.

That's generally an issue with cheap lifts (BTDT).
A good lift (Skyjacker, James Duff) has wider brackets to redistribute the stress while still keeping the stock geometry of the frontend.



Things I did different when I built my BII vs. what I did on my Ranger:

• Keep the D35 front axle
• Build my own lift parts (shock mounts, ext radius arms, beefed-up brackets so they won't crack)
• Dual 1354 t-case instead of Atlas II (less $$$, deeper-geared, + you get to keep your stock 2.48:1 low range too)
• ARB rear locker instead of a Detroit (I actually had an ARB initially in the Ranger too, but it grenaded and is why it now has a Detroit. The ARB in my BII is the later updated design one).
• 5.13 gears & 35" tires instead of 4.10s and 33s (wish I had done 4.56 on the Ranger)
• Cut the rockers off so I could put the sliders up higher for more clearance
• Custom bumper that tucks the winch in better for better approach angle

 

[FROADER]

What I would have done differently is build a cage before I bought the new tires.

I had this:

and I'm going to start this:

that will be getting these:

That's different.

 

[Baddecision93]

My biggest recommendation would be to skip drop brackets when lifting the front end, and go with cut and turned beams. My 91 explorer had drop brackets when i got it and they cracked from all the stress, and i know plenty of other people who have had the same problems.

Well I'm screwed there now...not only did I do drop brackets but they're Rough Country . I full well knew of their "hardcoreness" issues before I bought them but single dad = not a ton of extra cash. They're on there now so here goes nothing....

Well after 210,000 miles my LS is pretty much toast. I don't even think it worked at 180k when I started driving my Ex. And I don't have the option to swap in a locker in the rear unless I want to spend $$$ on one that replaces the carrier. With an open diff you can just buy a cheap lunchbox locker and throw it in there.

If I could start over with another RBV with what I know now (not much lol), my mods would be 31s, 2" springs front and rear and lockers front and rear.

Well I think I def am going to go w/an open carrier and a rear locker then. I'm not going to be anywhere near a crazy wheeler so it seems like I'm going to be really impressed w/the extra help of locker since I've only ever been used to plain old 4x4.

Everyone keeps mentioning COG, which is part of the reason I wanted to keep it to 4" lifted, but will tires affect COG much?
I have 31x10.5 now and for my next set I've been torn between 32x12.5, 33x10.5, or 33x12.5. It seems like 33x12.5 will rub from what I read. So is it worth losing the extra inch of height to gain the extra 2 (4 total) inches of stance if I go with 32x12.5?


I really appreciate all the responses. I really want to try to do this whole thing as reasonably as I can and not waste money where it doesn't need be and skimp where I shouldn't.

 

[little x]

I would have started with a vehicle with more body damage. And I would have spent more $ on the suspension and less on the engine.

 

[Slowlyvverot]

Everyone keeps mentioning COG, which is part of the reason I wanted to keep it to 4" lifted, but will tires affect COG much?
I have 31x10.5 now and for my next set I've been torn between 32x12.5, 33x10.5, or 33x12.5. It seems like 33x12.5 will rub from what I read. So is it worth losing the extra inch of height to gain the extra 2 (4 total) inches of stance if I go with 32x12.5?

it's not the tires you have to worry about, its how much you lift your truck to fit those tires. to keep your COG low, fender trimming is a must.

Im rockin 33x12.5s on a 2" lift front and rear with about as much fender metal removed as possible without actually removing the fenders. only the rear tires rub at full flex. slightly longer bump stops would fix that and still keep most of the travel back there.

The front does not currently flex enough to rub on or off road. I am stocking up long travel parts though and I will have to go with a larger lift soon to accommodate the added front articulation. I am going to try and keep it at or under 5.5" and run 36s but we'll see how that performs. I'm also going to push the front axle forward about an inch which should help a lot with rubbing from what I've heard.

 

[4x4junkie]

Well I'm screwed there now...not only did I do drop brackets but they're Rough Country . I full well knew of their "hardcoreness" issues before I bought them but single dad = not a ton of extra cash. They're on there now so here goes nothing....

You got a good welder? (all's not lost if so...) Some reinforcement (widening) on those brackets (and modifying the RC drop-plate extension so the diff doesn't smack it) should keep you going through some relatively heavy use (basically what I did with mine). You might have to do something about the coils though, RC coils are pretty stiff and won't offer much flex.

 

[Baddecision93]

to keep your COG low, fender trimming is a must.

Im rockin 33x12.5s on a 2" lift front and rear with about as much fender metal removed as possible without actually removing the fenders. only the rear tires rub at full flex. slightly longer bump stops would fix that and still keep most of the travel back there.

You got a good welder? (all's not lost if so...) Some reinforcement (widening) on those brackets (and modifying the RC drop-plate extension so the diff doesn't smack it) should keep you going through some relatively heavy use (basically what I did with mine). You might have to do something about the coils though, RC coils are pretty stiff and won't offer much flex.

Well I have brand new fenders sitting in my garage, waiting for some warmer weather to attempt installing them. I'm going to be nervous about cutting new fenders but maybe I should have less to worry about since I will be able to completely undercoat and prime them after the cuts.

As far as welding, my dad is a good welder so maybe I will have him look at it. I don't plan super hardcore wheeling but when I swap out my front axle later this year I will see if there are any indications of damage from the Rough Country bracket.

So, anyone else? Anything you would do differently?

 

[SVO42]

Not a lot I would have done differently. My main regret was that when I did my SAS I put a Detroit Locker in the rear axle, unaware at the time of their reputation for destroying themselves if you break an axleshaft. I would have spent more money and bought an ARB.

Before my SAS, I regretted not putting the Lock Right in the 8.8" sooner! I might have done a Powertrax No-Slip instead, though because it was still a DD and the No-Slip, while still a lunchbox locker, supposedly has better street manners.

 

[Baddecision93]

Not a lot I would have done differently. My main regret was that when I did my SAS I put a Detroit Locker in the rear axle, unaware at the time of their reputation for destroying themselves if you break an axleshaft. I would have spent more money and bought an ARB.

Before my SAS, I regretted not putting the Lock Right in the 8.8" sooner! I might have done a Powertrax No-Slip instead, though because it was still a DD and the No-Slip, while still a lunchbox locker, supposedly has better street manners.

Thank goodness I read your build
I was terrified there for a second once I started researching ARB prices...I think you shot a little more hardcore than I am.
I'm trying for no greater than 33s, D/D. So an Aussie should hopefully be enough for me

But this thread is what would you personally do different, so hopefully there is someone who reads this someday and learns to go straight to an ARB when they do their SAS build, right?

You are again right there saying the locker is the ticket though...think locker and winch have topped my list, right after my new 4.10 axles

 

[Flip4ford]

I would go a little higher then 4:10s if you are going to run 33's.

 

[Baddecision93]

I would go a little higher then 4:10s if you are going to run 33's.

I've been tossing that around but I go from $200 for junkyard axles to close to a grand to get into like 4.56s.
Plus, then I still have to fool around with the disc brake conversion on the rear and I still have the $300 for the rear locker.

Is there really going to be that much of a difference between 4.10 and 4.56 or higher? I still need to be able to travel highway too, since there is no where close to wheel or go camping.

Or I could just run 32 inch tires...the BFG A/Ts I want come in 32.

I'm just thinking that for a "best you can do" build 4.10s will really make me happy compared to the 3.27s I have now .

Ideally I would gear 4.56 or numerically higher but I don't know if the extra $1,100 is worth the benefit for a primarily D/D. But then again I don't want to waste a bunch of time and money on getting JY 4.10s in just to swap gears out in a year.

Will I really be that unhappy w/4.10s?
Thoughts?

 

[Slowlyvverot]

It all comes down to whether you want to spend cash on brand new expensive parts or go the budget route and buy junkyard parts and used parts from other wheelers.

For instance, a few months ago I was contemplating buying brand new skyjacker axle brackets and longarms from TRS, but I decided to wait and see what I could find on the classifieds. With a little patience I ended up with stage II brackets and longarms for about 1/5 of what I would've paid for them new. and they are in almost perfect condition.

I would say hold on for a little bit and keep your eyes peeled to see if anyone is selling 4.56 axles. it may be more expensive than getting a set of 4.10s from the junkyard but it will surely be less expensive than going with brand new gears. and you may even get a locker or two if you are lucky. I would say skip the 4.10s if you are going to run 33s.

 

[Burns]

If I had this to do again I would go bigger in the axle dept and higher in the gear dept.

The 91-94 motor with 5speed is a great combo. Add your manual transfer case and your golden. (think about a doubler or atlas if cash is good)

I should have went dana 60 with a gear ratio several steps above what the size requires.

 

[Baddecision93]

4.10 vs 4.56 for the money?

Ok, I did some math...

If I run 4.56 with 33s I'm roughly at 2,384 RPM in overdrive.

If I run 4.10 with 32s I'm roughly at 2,216 RPM in overdrive.

Is there really that much of a difference? I mean, on the low end? I would think those ratios are pretty dang close, and for the money I can get into 4.10 a lot cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I think I would absolutely be happy with 4.56 but I'd like to get new axles in this summer. I could handle the price of 4.10s a lot easier.

Thoughts? Are guys running 4.10s really that disappointed with the performance?
Idk, sell me on one over the other, somebody.

If I get a winch and 4.10s with a rear locker am I really going to be that unhappy vs 4.56 open and no winch? Cause realistically that's about what I'm looking at dollar vs. dollar on those options.

I know I will never go bigger than 33s ever, btw, strictly because at that point it seems like virtually everything gets upgraded. There's not enough regular wheeling in my future to necessitate anything larger than 33".

 

[Maniak]

Ok, I did some math...

If I run 4.56 with 33s I'm roughly at 2,384 RPM in overdrive.

If I run 4.10 with 32s I'm roughly at 2,216 RPM in overdrive.

Is there really that much of a difference? I mean, on the low end? I would think those ratios are pretty dang close, and for the money I can get into 4.10 a lot cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I think I would absolutely be happy with 4.56 but I'd like to get new axles in this summer. I could handle the price of 4.10s a lot easier.

Thoughts? Are guys running 4.10s really that disappointed with the performance?
Idk, sell me on one over the other, somebody.

If I get a winch and 4.10s with a rear locker am I really going to be that unhappy vs 4.56 open and no winch? Cause realistically that's about what I'm looking at dollar vs. dollar on those options.

I know I will never go bigger than 33s ever, btw, strictly because at that point it seems like virtually everything gets upgraded. There's not enough regular wheeling in my future to necessitate anything larger than 33".

Did you mean to change the gear ratio AND tire size in your calculations?

If you mean both to be 33" tires the 4.10's drop the ratio by more than 200 rpms, which gets you to "about" 2150 rpms @ 65mph.

We run 4.10's and at 60mph its < 2000 rpms which means when we even "see" a hill, it doesn't have enough oomph. I really wish we had the 4.56 for our 33's.

Since our X is no longer a DD, or if it is used as one I don't go over 65 (normally its 62 mph) I'm looking at really upping the ratio to 4.88 or possibly higher (since we might go 35's later).

~Mark

 

[Baddecision93]

Did you mean to change the gear ratio AND tire size in your calculations?

If you mean both to be 33" tires the 4.10's drop the ratio by more than 200 rpms, which gets you to "about" 2150 rpms @ 65mph.

We run 4.10's and at 60mph its < 2000 rpms which means when we even "see" a hill, it doesn't have enough oomph. I really wish we had the 4.56 for our 33's.

Since our X is no longer a DD, or if it is used as one I don't go over 65 (normally its 62 mph) I'm looking at really upping the ratio to 4.88 or possibly higher (since we might go 35's later).

~Mark

I did mean to change the tire. Because I'm up in the air on whether to go all the way to 33 I decided to run the calculation with 32 for the 4.10 or 33 for the 4.56.
Thought it would keep it all relative, make it a fair"er" fight.

But that's the difference I was trying to point out; if I go just 1" smaller on tire I can get about the same performance as 4.56 with 33s.

Just an idea I was throwing around. I just wondered since I'm shooting for a "best I can do" build if I compromised and went with 32s instead of 33s if I would be happy.
I'm not sure the extra 1" of ground clearance is worth needing to go to a 4.56 or higher.
Like I said before, for around the price of getting 4.56 set up I could swing the 4.10s, and a winch, and a rear locker...It's tempting considering I'm going for a primarily D/D and I'll have to highway travel anytime I want to go off-road.