Programming Keys - A dealer ripoff!

[chadhargis]

So...I buy a nice used 98 Explorer that only comes with one key. I pick up two un-cut keys off ebay for $20 and get them cut locally.

Since I only have one key, I have to go to the dealer to have them program the new keys into the computer. A five minute job at most. My local dealer wants $70 to program the keys! What a crock of ****! I'm not paying $70 to have the keys programmed. That can go jump in a lake.

So.....my question to you guys is how do I deactivate the PATS system? Surely there is a way to bypass it so any key that fits the ignition will start the truck. If there is no way to bypass it, does anyone know where I can get the programming done cheap? Like $10 or something reasonable. $70 is nothing more than a dealer trying to take advantage of its customers and that really chaps my ass.

I'm hoping someone here can help, otherwise it looks like the "stealer" has me by the short and curlys.

 

[section525]

Yeah, it is a rip off. My buddy just had to do the same thing. Cept he bought his key from Ford. So it was almost $100! Plus, they didn't even give him a 'Ford' key. It was some other company! WTF?

I'd PM/email Bryan at Apten Chips and see if he can delete the whole PATS system. I'm thinking he can. Another thing.. my Dad has an '02 Super Duty and he was telling me that if you have two keys already, you can use them to program others. So what I am saying is if you do have to take it up the @$$ on this deal, just buy more keys and program them all while you have two! That way they can never do you dry again...

 

[aldive]

See http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68728&highlight=programming+pats+keys for programming a PATS II key,

Iy=ts not really a ripoff since the dealer or locksmith has to purchase special equipment to program the key; shouldn;t they be allowed to make a profiot?

 

[chadhargis]

The dealer wasn't required to buy any special equipment to program the keys. It was mandated by the Federal Government that all vehicles from 1996 and up have an OBD system. This is what it used to program the computer. They already have this equipment and the cost of the SCAN tool is more than offset by the time it saves the tech when diagnosing problems.

I have absolutely no problem paying a dealer a fair price for good service. But I know what it takes to program the keys, and it won't take more than 5 minutes for the tech to do it (hell...I'll do it if they let me "rent" the machine). At $70, that's $840 an hour for service. That is a RIPOFF and it's taking advantage of the customer. I didn't install this stupid system in the truck, and no one that I know of asked for it. It's just another way for car manufacturers to rape the customer. Ford isn't alone. GM, Mercedes, VW, Lexus, BMW, and other makers have odd keys that you HAVE to order from them.

I work hard for my money and treat my customers with respect. I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting everyone I deal with to do the same.

 

[aldive]

PATS programming and OBD programming are two different things.

 

[chadhargis]

When I bought my wifes Cougar, I made the dealer toss in an extra key at no charge. I watched them hook up the SCAN tool and program the key. It was literally a 5 minute procedure. Either this tech was really good, or the PATS system on the Cougar is different. Even if it took an hour of true labor....$70 an hour is still pretty expensive.

There HAS to be a way to disable it. Look at remote start systems. I know they work on Explorers, and they start the truck without a key.

 

[Doug]

The PATS system isnt disabled in truck with remote start. generally what is done is a key is placed inside the steering column close to the lock cylinder so that signal is present when the truck is started remotely.

 

[aldive]

I can't imagine want to disable the PATS system; its a good one.

 

[chadhargis]

Humm.....That gives me an idea!

Maybe I can remove the PATS device out of the working key and attach it to the steering column. Then remove the PATS device out of the other keys. Any reason why that wouldn't work? Too darn bad I paid $20 for the other keys when I could have spent $2 for a standard old key.

It's to the point now that it's not about the money, but whether or not I can defeat the system! Ford will never beat me! <maniacial laugh>

 

[Ray Lobato]

I think someone here programed their new keys using only one key. You might want to do a search and see.

 

[Bottomlesspit]

Another quick idea.......maybe try another dealer? I only got one key with my used X too. When I had the truck in for service last month I asked if they would program me a new key. They added it to the service invoice and only charged about $20. Call around, maybe some dealers "rip off" less?!
Ken

 

[SiLenZe]

you can buy a PATS bypass kit from ford or most car alarm shops.

 

[chadhargis]

I tried the one key method, and it didn't work. In fact, it scared the crap out of me when my original key wouldn't start the truck. I had to turn the key off and back on to get the computer to re-read the PATS chip.

Wonder how much the PATS bypass is? That would be wonderful. It would also to allow me to carry a spare key in my wallet as I have done with all my previous vehicles (can't do it with the big fat PATS key).

 

[RobertF]

Originally posted by chadhargis
But I know what it takes to program the keys, and it won't take more than 5 minutes for the tech to do it (hell...I'll do it if they let me "rent" the machine). At $70, that's $840 an hour for service. That is a RIPOFF and it's taking advantage of the customer. I didn't install this stupid system in the truck, and no one that I know of asked for it. It's just another way for car manufacturers to rape the customer. Ford isn't alone. GM, Mercedes, VW, Lexus, BMW, and other makers have odd keys that you HAVE to order from them.

What about the knowledge? What if part of your water valve broke and the plummer fixed in five minutes because he knew what he was doing then gave you a bill for $100. It was his knowledge that did it so fast and got your water back on. I've seen dealer jockeys take 20-30min to copy a key cause they don't do the brake pedal presses rights or the timing of turning on and off the car. If someone possesses the knowledge to get me going again faster he should be rewarded for it. Now of course I'd never pay $70 for a key, at most I'd pay is $50. My way of avoiding this whole pile of cr*p is to drive an older car, a '92 X and a '73 F250. No damn $50 keys on those cars!

 

[chadhargis]

Believe me...I understand know how. I'm in the computer network field, and I've been paid well for my knowledge in the past. But the one difference is that my rates are industry standard and most of the time lower. I believe my #1 job is making my client happy. I strive to give high quality, prompt service at a reasonable price. That is why I'm so frustrated with this whole situation. I already have the keys. I've already cut them. All I need is someone to take a few minutes and program them to my vehicle. If I ran a dealership, I'd do it for FREE just to show my customers how much I appreciate their business. Hell...I've seen dealerships offering $9.95 oil changes that take more labor to do than programming a key.

Let me give you an example of good customer service. I ordered the blank keys off eBay. After receiving them, I took them to my local Home Depot to have them cut. After the keys were cut I asked how much I owed. The gentleman said, "Ah...nothing. I've got the same kind of key and those suckers are expensive." Now THAT'S service and probably why I've spent thousands of dollars at their store in the past few months.

 

[bates]

when dad first bought his pos expedition(thats another story why its a pos) he asked for extra keys so we could drive (the kids, his wife) so they said it would cost around 200 and some bucks can, for 3 keys. so he just said they can take the truck back and hell buy a chev, so then they offered to throw in the keys for free when they though they would lose the 50g sale. moral of the story is, im wiith chad, they should be able to do it cheaper, its rediculous. i do agree that people should be paid for their knowledge, but they get paid the same amount no matter what right? so it falls back on the dealership again, put tose intelligent people on more important things, like brakes, if it takes way too long for some people to program a key, should they be working on the critical parts of a vehicle? the ones that can kill, not the stupid key? just my.02

 

[gt_stang88]

The dealership is just going by the labor guide, which is a good thing. You siad it only takes the tech 5 min to program a key right, so you wha to pay for 5min of labor. Right? Well what if you get an idiot that doesn't know how to work the scan tool and it takes him 2hrs to program a key, Do you want to pay for 2hours of labor? Just pay the price or stop *****in.

 

[aldive]

Originally posted by gt_stang88
The dealership is just going by the labor guide, which is a good thing. You siad it only takes the tech 5 min to program a key right, so you wha to pay for 5min of labor. Right? Well what if you get an idiot that doesn't know how to work the scan tool and it takes him 2hrs to program a key, Do you want to pay for 2hours of labor? Just pay the price or stop *****in.

A men.

 

[chadhargis]

It all comes down to customer service. The dealer figures it has you over a barrel so it can charge whatever it damn well pleases. That's price fixing, and it's illegal if it can be proven. Sort of makes me wonder how much stink I could stir up if I could find someone willing to start a class action suit.

 

[aldive]

Originally posted by chadhargis
It all comes down to customer service. The dealer figures it has you over a barrel so it can charge whatever it damn well pleases. That's price fixing, and it's illegal if it can be proven. Sort of makes me wonder how much stink I could stir up if I could find someone willing to start a class action suit.

Its prive fixing if it is an unfaire price, which it is not, and ALL desalers charge the same.