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Questions on Remote Turbo 5.0L in a Ranger....

After browsing around for quite a while in search of answers I finally came across what I needed: someone that has already done the remote job on a 5.0 Explorer... I own a Ranger that we've converted over to the EFI 5.0 from the Explorer, and now I'm in search of more power, and need a few questions answered. This pickup is my daily driver; it needs to be dependable. I don't strip race, but I don't turn down the "Friday night stoplight run" either. Flamers please go somewhere else; I really need educated and solid advice:

Forced Induction definitely seemed like a good step, but after hunting down multiple superchargers, I don't want to spend that much. Running a remote turbo appears far more feasible, as I have more than enough access to build a large part of it (tubing bends and whatnot); what I can't build I can get at dealer cost/super-cheap-nonetheless.

First and foremost: what turbo? The most popular response seems to be the HX or HY35 from the mid/late 90's Cummins; here lately I've seen complaints that this ISN'T the most effective option. I've also toyed with the idea of running twin turbo's, like a pair from a 1.8T Jetta or similar. However, I know certain turbo's have pieces of manifold molded in, and therefore won't work. The way my exhaust is done I have lots of room and the piping would be easy to work in for a twin turbo setup. But, in the interest of efficiency and reliability, the best option is _______?

Most superchargers for the Explorers are pushing about 6-7psi boost; 6.5psi wastegate ok? 6psi max boost seems decent for the crank and bottom end in a 'xplorer 5.0. Also, does the HX/Y35 run an internal wastegate like Jetta's and whatnot, or do I need a seperate wastegate? From the sounds of it I need to run a seperate wastegate to keep from overboosting. At this point I'm leaning towards a seperate wastegate as a reassurance.

Injectors or no injectors? I've read that the 19# stock injectors will work. "Will work" doesn't satisfy me though... am I going to be lean at full throttle or will it be ok? We have some good hills in Idaho and I don't need to be going lean partway up. Will the MAF be ok or does it need changed out as well? The Lightning/Mustang MAF seems a popular option; if I'm changing injectors then this might as well go too. Being my daily driver, I don't want to worry about having a lean meltdown.

Now... the computer: my Ranger is pre-OBD2, where the Explorer is OBD2. As such, we had to bypass things like the Evap test for the gas tank and whatnot; the computer also still thinks the truck is an automatic with an automatic transfer case. (We live in the mud and snow; I prefer manual hubs and a manual t-case. I also prefer pulling with an standard over an AT. Please no flaming here... will it work or no?) More or less, will the computer need reflashed or not? I saw a dyno sheet put up by the owner of the turbo'd AWD Explorer that said the 5.0 on the wheel dyno (not the AWD Explorer, but something similar?) was an Explorer block, turbocharged, but running stock tune without a chip.... at 636hp. Will the stock tune with this computer work with a forced induction app? Will anything we had to bypass go haywire because of the boost? I've kicked it around a while now and have loosely decided on the stock tune being ok as long as I have the right air/fuel mods to keep it happy. Correct or not?

From what I've found the heads will flow enough; the valvetrain and bottom end should be sufficient for ~6psi, correct? Again, its my daily driver and I don't want to have to worry of splitting a block, busting a crank, bending a rod, etc. I'm not shooting for any more than like 450hp ABSOLUTELY MAX. 350 would be great.

Also, (I know this is a total "newbie" question, but nonetheless..) redline on a 'splorer 5.0 is ? I'm hesitant to run above about 4500 because it sounds 'tight', yet dyno sheets are showing 5500+.

I'm sure I've left things out but I don't have time to reread it right now... be back later.
 



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jah81592

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WOW! This thread brings back memories of the old days, calibrated MAF meters and FMU's. Thank God we have evolved beyond that. My recommendation to v8rangerboy is this. I would swap my ride over to a EEC-v fuel injection system. It would be cheap and then you would be able to enjoy all the flash tuning available. If you don't then I would understand. I would (as stated previously) stay away from FMU's and Cal'd MAF meters. My recommendation is to buy a Lightning meter and run 42# injectors. I know you could probably get by with smaller injectors (36's) but 42# are so abundant that they could be picked up for small cash. Tuning will definately be required to be performed on your vehicle. I doubt that you will be able to get a "chip" sent to you and this thing be perfect. I have tuned many EEC-iv systems.

Alternative 2, If you wanted to simplify your installation you could run a set of 42# injectors, 76mm C&L meter/Fox Mustang electronics (AFH-55) with a green tube. This would get you running and driving and all you will have to do is have a tuner come and touch things up (a/f's will be real close). Don't let anyone(dyno's) fool you and state that the vehicle cannot be tuned, it can. Fortunately, most of the v-8 and 4.0 v-6 boxcodes are supported for EEC-iv. I have run across a few 3.0L v-6's which weren't supported (Robert is aware of one-and I have a few others I couldn't do anything with, but only on EEC-iv tuning). Most of the EEC-v L4,v-6's and v-8's have support. Thanks-j
 



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rocket 5979

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K. Yeah I was pretty sure I would go with bigger injectors. I have the box code, I'm just not sure where (if anywhere) to look it up on their site.

Something did catch my eye today though. Some of the Explorer supercharger 6-7psi kits DON'T run bigger injectors or any type of chip; they kick up the fuel pump, and as mentioned, run an FMU. The basis of forced induction is the same; turbo or s/c makes no difference. These kits obviously wouldn't sell if word got out of underfueling and thus, meltdowns....




That FMU crap is a total band-aid. Do it correctly and swap your fuel pump and injectors. That is the proper way, regardless of what those other idiots try to get away with in their supercharger kit.
 






rocket 5979

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I have run across a few 3.0L v-6's which weren't supported (Robert is aware of one-and I have a few others I couldn't do anything with, but only on EEC-iv tuning).




Heheheheh. Yeah I am well aware of that one. Hehehehe. Oh well, the 6600 chip was free so I suppose I will use it for something else one day. I think a carb'ed 5.0 will go in one day; to heck with that tiny 3.0 V6.
 






jah81592

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v8rangerboy I would run from 19# injectors and a fmu. They spell total disaster. Listen to the ones on these forums which will give you valuable information,please. Rocket (Rob,oops sorry!) and I have first hand experience with what you are going/trying to do. I am a custom tuning dealer and Robert has excellent experience with tuning and combinations as well. I see everything come through my doors and usually I can tell just by the support hardware how well it is going to work. FMU's are notorious for failing. Hence, my total reasoning behind tuning and running larger injectors. The odds are in your favor with Rob's and my recommendations. Use the FMU as a paper weight on your desk! The are an excellent conversation piece as to how many engines have been wiped out due to thier failures.
 






scruff

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Sorry about suggesting a Cal'd flow meter - mostly what I was getting at is that if you buy an aftermarket one (as opposed to an LMAF) make sure it is a Cal'd one and from a reputable company. People have such mixed results with them, it's hard to know how much is truth and how much is just bad press and a few bad apples.
Everyone is right though, nothing beats a factory one.
 






V8RangerBoy

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I finally have the bulk of my parts together - everything but the injectors and MAF. Any 80 or 90mm MAF will be sufficient in my case, correct, being that I'm going to get it tuned anyway? I've found a local 80mm MAF that came from something with [supposedly] 24# injectors (guy isn't sure what it's actually from). Regardless though, any MAF with large diameter like this will be sufficient since it's getting recalibrated, right?

In my injector hunt I've basically been narrowed down to 39's since they are the most commonly the same shape as the stock Exploder 19# injectors. These will 'plug-and-play' to the stock injector harness, correct-o?
 






justin146

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I finally have the bulk of my parts together - everything but the injectors and MAF. Any 80 or 90mm MAF will be sufficient in my case, correct, being that I'm going to get it tuned anyway? I've found a local 80mm MAF that came from something with [supposedly] 24# injectors (guy isn't sure what it's actually from). Regardless though, any MAF with large diameter like this will be sufficient since it's getting recalibrated, right?

In my injector hunt I've basically been narrowed down to 39's since they are the most commonly the same shape as the stock Exploder 19# injectors. These will 'plug-and-play' to the stock injector harness, correct-o?


What did the MAF come off of? The tune will be what compensates for the new MAF- I am close to maxing out my 80mm Lightning MAF at just 7psi. Yes, the 39lb injectors are a direct drop in for 98+ Explorers.
 






V8RangerBoy

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Hmm... Sticks in my mind that my block is from a '97... make a difference?

Will the C&L 76mm fit right up to my stock sensor and harness?

And, Jah, mine is set up as EEC-V.
 






V8RangerBoy

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I found a set of 39lb injectors, now I'm to just the MAF. Basically any 96+ Exploder with the 5.0 would run the same injector body correct, so they better fit!

As for the MAF, I've been looking at the C&L 76mm's. I can get one calibrated to 38lb injectors, which would make it a little rich, but then I could get it the 140 miles to have it tuned right? Does the 76mm C&L 'plug-and-play' with my harness? The mounting looks identical, I'm just curious whether or not the wiring will work correctly.
 






scruff

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Why not use a lightning MAF ? They seem to be cheap and preniful on Ebay and would already be cal'd for the 39lb injectors if you bought the right one.

I just bought Justins spare 90mm one for my eventual addition of a turbo to my rod..

Or maybe I should follow your lead and dropa 5.0 into the ranger I just bought.
 






jah81592

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Please don't think that the 90MM meter is cal'd for the 39# injectors. This is the combination that is used in the Lightning and Cobra's but the tuning is very different. Hence the reason for the exact meter in the Cobra and Lightning but both run different injectors. You will need tuning to get your setup running properly.-j
 






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I found a set of 39lb injectors, now I'm to just the MAF. Basically any 96+ Exploder with the 5.0 would run the same injector body correct, so they better fit!


The injector body is not the concern as both EV1 body style and EV6 body style's will fit just fine. DO NOT CONFUSE THE EV1 AND EV6 BODY STYLES WITH THE EV1 AND EV6 CONNECTOR TYPES AS SOME INJECTORS MIX AND MATCH. My 60 lb/hr injectors use an EV1 connector with an EV6 body. Your concern should be the injector electrical connectors that plug into your wiring harness. Make sure those are the correct ones for whichever wiring harness you have and everything else will be fine.

The Cobra 39's are EV6 body and EV6 connector
The Lightning 42's are EV1 body and EV1 connector



Please don't think that the 90MM meter is cal'd for the 39# injectors. This is the combination that is used in the Lightning and Cobra's but the tuning is very different. Hence the reason for the exact meter in the Cobra and Lightning but both run different injectors. You will need tuning to get your setup running properly.-j


Hehe. Beat me to it. I was scrolling down to reply to this one but I see you got it.
 






V8RangerBoy

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Perfect Rocket, thanks a ton. I've been digging through picture after picture and I was pretty sure they were identical short of the plug. I'll go ahead and go pick up the injectors and get started on the last link... the MAF.

I've been looking at a precalibrated C&L 76mm MAF like Jah1658 recommended. If I get the MAF set up for a 86-93 'stang with 38's, that should at least get me up and going enough to go get it tuned, correct? From what I can tell they just send you the MAF body with different sampling tubes and I use my wiring, right?
 






justin146

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Perfect Rocket, thanks a ton. I've been digging through picture after picture and I was pretty sure they were identical short of the plug. I'll go ahead and go pick up the injectors and get started on the last link... the MAF.

I've been looking at a precalibrated C&L 76mm MAF like Jah1658 recommended. If I get the MAF set up for a 86-93 'stang with 38's, that should at least get me up and going enough to go get it tuned, correct? From what I can tell they just send you the MAF body with different sampling tubes and I use my wiring, right?

A Lightning meter would still be a better option than a calibrated meter. You are going to need a tune either way, and from what I am told, the OEM meters are MUCH more accurate than any aftermarket meter (except for an SCT meter, which is OEM quality).
 






V8RangerBoy

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The injector body is not the concern as both EV1 body style and EV6 body style's will fit just fine. DO NOT CONFUSE THE EV1 AND EV6 BODY STYLES WITH THE EV1 AND EV6 CONNECTOR TYPES AS SOME INJECTORS MIX AND MATCH. My 60 lb/hr injectors use an EV1 connector with an EV6 body. Your concern should be the injector electrical connectors that plug into your wiring harness. Make sure those are the correct ones for whichever wiring harness you have and everything else will be fine.

The Cobra 39's are EV6 body and EV6 connector
The Lightning 42's are EV1 body and EV1 connector

In this case, the stock Explorer injectors would be the EV6 body and EV1 connector. Right?

Edit: Google'd and found your injectors. Seems my hypothesis is right.
 






V8RangerBoy

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And so the final parts list stands as...

TO4E .57 Trim
TiAl 38mm Wastegate
GReddy Blow-off Valve
K&N Filter
39# Cobra Injectors
80mm Lightning MAF
EV6 to EV1 injector adapters
AEM Wideband AFR Gauge
Autometer 30in vac, 20psi boost gauge
Various 2 1/4 and 3" tubing
Billion other little parts and odds-n-ends.

Install to start 12/20.

[Edit]: Should've just copy/pasted Justin's sig and saved myself the typing time haha.
 






justin146

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And so the final parts list stands as...

TO4E .57 Trim
TiAl 38mm Wastegate
GReddy Blow-off Valve
K&N Filter
39# Cobra Injectors
80mm Lightning MAF
EV6 to EV1 injector adapters
AEM Wideband AFR Gauge
Autometer 30in vac, 20psi boost gauge
Various 2 1/4 and 3" tubing
Billion other little parts and odds-n-ends.

Install to start 12/20.

[Edit]: Should've just copy/pasted Justin's sig and saved myself the typing time haha.

That 57 trim will work, but it is really too small. You are going to be way off of the efficiency island. A 57 trim is efficient making the power that a 5.0 makes NA. I know of people using this size turbo ( I tried one) but they have to use a large wastegate because the hot side is too small also (assuming it has a standard T3 turbine). The Holset that I have is probably the smallest turbo you would want to put on a 5.0, and it is a good bit larger than a 57trim. I would look for something with an inducer around 60mm, like a 60-1, 62-1, T61, with a P-trim turbine and .58-.68 housing, or at lease a Stage 5 turbine. Or you could look for a Holset HX35 like mine (not a HY35). I chose the HX35 because it has been proven to support 450whp on a 5.0, and spools really fast (James can tell you how fast it gets into boost on the highway). Fast spool is exacly what I was looking for; since I am AWD, I dont have to worry about traction off of the line. This is the reason I experimented with the 57trim at first.
 






V8RangerBoy

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Given that a 5.0 flows ~30lb/min at 4500-5000, both the 60-1 and 57 trim TO4E are about the same spot on the island (at around 7psi) so it shouldn't be too big of a problem. If it is, I'll make a couple phone calls and snag up a HX35.
 






justin146

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Given that a 5.0 flows ~30lb/min at 4500-5000, both the 60-1 and 57 trim TO4E are about the same spot on the island (at around 7psi) so it shouldn't be too big of a problem. If it is, I'll make a couple phone calls and snag up a HX35.


But you have to look at the pressure on the left of the map. Say your goal is 400flywheel HP at around 8psi. You arent even on the map with a 57 trim. Like I said, it will work; but a 60mm+ compressor would be more ideal.

t04e-57.gif


Now that same 400hp at 8psi on a 60-1 is a different story. Your are in the map right to the very end.

t04b-60-1.gif




What size turbine wheel does your turbo have?
 



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V8RangerBoy

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Well 8psi gives a pressure ratio of ~1.55 (14.7+8 / 14.7). 4700 RPM in a 5.0 is roughly 30lb/min, which lands you...

TO4E .57
to4e5730lb8psimapqv3.jpg


60-1
60130lb8psiyo3.jpg


No doubt the 60-1 is in a way better range, I agree, but the .57 isn't bad considering what it's being put on! I'm not arguing, I truly value your opinion as you obviously have the experience with exactly what I'm using. After talking to a Cummins rep though, he felt the .57 would be a great turbo for what I'm wanting.

The one thing that I need to consider for my truck more so than your setup is that I have a 5-speed in mine instead of the automatic that came with the Exploder. I hate automatics, so we wired it all in for a 5-speed, and I need a turbo that will come up on boost quick between shifts since I can't really flat-foot shift my pickup. It doesn't really see much above 4500 rpm, so airflow won't be an issue above the red lines I drew. 2000-4500 is typical for how I drive; when I mathed out the flow for that range, the min airflow would be ~13lbs up to a max of again, 30lbs. When I drew it up on the chart, it landed in a 'more-than-acceptable' range.

I will definitely watch for a 60-1, especially if I decide to step up the boost. But for now I'm pretty confident with what I got.

[Edit]: .63 on the turbine housing I believe. It's at my house, so I can't look at the moment, but .63 sticks in my brain.

I also talked to a guy running a modded 5.0 Mustang with a T04E, and he's clear up at 11.5psi with it.
 






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