4.0 Remote Turbo Buildup

[rocket 5979]

I think that would be on top of the motor? Unless, ofcourse, you'll be doing a remote mount KB? hehe

Run it off the driveshaft.

 

[V8RangerBoy]

Running your intake piping forward of the front suspension is not going to be a problem. If I did it in my LS that is about a foot lower to the ground then you can easily do it with your X. I do not understand why you guys have that idea crammed so far into your heads. It is just not the case. It is 2" piping that you have to run to the front. That is pretty small and easily routed in some very tight spaces.

True story. My spool outlet sits basically in the frame inside of the C shape of the frame, and the 2" tubing just follows the frame all the way forward until cab meets engine bay. After that it turns up and follows the cab line up into the engine bay, and turns into 3" along the way. Arranging the bends how I wanted them was a little difficult, but there's really not THAT much work involved in doing it. It's more planning and marking that actual fab'ing.

 

[rocket 5979]

but there's really not THAT much work involved in doing it. It's more planning and marking that actual fab'ing.

Measure twice so that you only have to cut and weld once.

I need another custom turbo project; the holidays are getting boring. There is only so much turkey and beans that you can eat...

 

[red82gt]

Great thread guys!

I've been contemplating building something similar for my 2002 4.6L. Since the re-sale value of it is kinda hurting and me being a mustang guy that still has faith in the 2v 4.6, it is looking more and more like a good Idea.
I have access to Holset HX35's to no end, a whole bunch of 2 1/4" 16 ga tubing with several complex mandrel bends, a metal chop saw, and a mig welder. Money isn't a problem but I'd rather do it myself for the fun of it as I'm an avid drag racer (time permitting) and build my own engines, rear ends, etc...but I've never stepped into the world of power adders.
The biggest factor is the time...I'll need to get a solid plan and get my parts list as complete as possible.
My plan is also to do a remote mount with the turbo after the resonator (or is it a converter?) where the stock muffler is.
I still need to decide if I want to go intercooled, and to go blow-thru or draw-thru with the maf.
I've still got a lot to learn and this thread has definitely given me the confidence that with some help, it can be done.
Sorry if it seems like I'm hijacking the thread but really I just feel as if I'm paying homage to Jakee and the others on this board for stepping up and building their own systems!
Good Luck Guys!

 

[V8RangerBoy]

Thanks!

It sounds like you have a good start going.

A lot of people don't like mounting the turbo behind the cat converter because of the fear of the converters insides breaking up and running thru the turbo. Mine will actually be mounted really close to the y-pipe so if I decided to run a cat after the turbo, I could without the fear of screwing the turbo up. More than likely, I will not run a converter at all. Running a converter N/A really doesn’t mess with the potential power output of the engine, but running a converter with a power adder does represent a bottleneck.

Yep, I ended up cutting out all my cat's in my pickup as well. To leave them in there, #1 it's just that much more restrictive, #2, they absorb that much more exhaust heat, and #3, it's no loss of performance by the computer NOT seeing it.

 

[V8RangerBoy]

My plan is also to do a remote mount with the turbo after the resonator (or is it a converter?) where the stock muffler is.

Probably want to either take them out or move them behind the turbo, for above reasons.

I still need to decide if I want to go intercooled, and to go blow-thru or draw-thru with the maf.

Remote systems typically don't require an intercooler unless you are running alot of boost or excessively high intake air temps. Draw through setups are generally more repeatable accuracy-wise; you just have to figure in on how you will route the blow-off valve to blow back into the intake after the MAF. Blow-thru's are by no means a BAD option, and are simpler to setup.

I've still got a lot to learn and this thread has definitely given me the confidence that with some help, it can be done.

Read around as you have time. There's tons of information in this forum and many others as well. turbomustangs.com is another great spot to snoop around. If you can't find the specific information that you want, ask. Rocket and James have priceless knowledge to share! :

 

[Turdle]

This makes me think about those BOV's that can be made to recirculate back into the intake. How in the heck does this work? I can't see how this relieves pressure when it's blowing air back into the intake? What am I missing?

It gets directed to upstream of the compressor if I remember correctly.

 

[V8RangerBoy]

It gets directed to upstream of the compressor if I remember correctly.

Right - sorry. By intake I meant (like my case) the intake TUBE, which is the filtered pre-compressor unpressured intake side, not the charge side. A setup like Justin's with the filter put right onto the turbo would have to be different.

 

[V8RangerBoy]

I'm actually doing a Blow-thru so the BOV on mine is before the MAF on the charge side. This allows me to vent to the atmosphere.

Nevermind, I remember Rocket explaining the other way to me. You vent from the charge side to the intake side.

EDIT - I found the thread I was talking about but the guy is actually going from the charge side to the intake side, so it wasn't what I thought.

Yeah. BOV after the MAF would be bad, bad news!

 

[jah81592]

You can run a BOV vented to atmosphere, after the MAF meter. This is the way Hellion turbo kits does it and I will in my setup as well. This will add about an hour to the tuning but it can be done without adverse driveability problems. I have several customers which have the BOV post MAF and they don't report any problems at all. For Jake, I recommend running a draw thru setup but it is his combination and his decision for MAF placement. There are pro's and con's to both setups. The biggest con to the draw thru setup is that you have to lengthen your MAF wiring. This really gets people nervous. Otherwise keep on chipping at the stone.

 

[rocket 5979]

You can run a BOV vented to atmosphere, after the MAF meter. This is the way Hellion turbo kits does it and I will in my setup as well. This will add about an hour to the tuning but it can be done without adverse driveability problems. I have several customers which have the BOV post MAF and they don't report any problems at all. For Jake, I recommend running a draw thru setup but it is his combination and his decision for MAF placement. There are pro's and con's to both setups. The biggest con to the draw thru setup is that you have to lengthen your MAF wiring. This really gets people nervous. Otherwise keep on chipping at the stone.

There are pro's and con's to both blow and draw through. If blowthrough is setup correctly I have seen it not have any adverse affects on the metering ability of a MAFS and drivability will not suffer either. However, as we all know, blowthrough is harder to setup properly which is where the hitch comes in. People do not set their blowthrough system up properly and then blame their MAF signal getting all screwy on blowthrough systems in general which is not the case. Whenever I setup a turbo system with a BOV planned in the near future I plan to run blowthrough and just ensure it is setup properly. There are many more pro's & con's that could be mentioned for both setups but I have the day off and do not feel like blabbing all day on here. Different ways to skin that cat I guess.

 

[V8RangerBoy]

You can run a BOV vented to atmosphere, after the MAF meter. This is the way Hellion turbo kits does it and I will in my setup as well. This will add about an hour to the tuning but it can be done without adverse driveability problems. I have several customers which have the BOV post MAF and they don't report any problems at all. For Jake, I recommend running a draw thru setup but it is his combination and his decision for MAF placement. There are pro's and con's to both setups. The biggest con to the draw thru setup is that you have to lengthen your MAF wiring. This really gets people nervous. Otherwise keep on chipping at the stone.

Strange. Blowing off metered air not causing a problem comes out wrong in my head any way I think of it

 

[red82gt]

Is it as simple as splicing in more length of wire when relocating the MAF?
If I were to vent the bypass to the inlet before the turbocharger and after the MAF is there a minimum distance that it should be done past the Maf? I could picture giving a pretty turbulent blast to the incoming air if you were to put the bypass back in too close to the MAF.
I would think that if you vented the bypass to the environment, you'd likely just get a momentarily rich condition and I really couldn't see it causing that much havoc unless you are constantly having it pop off at part throttle. Someone with experience in the biz want to correct me-or show me the way? Does the EEC V adjust the A/F with the O2 sensors at WOT?

 

[rocket 5979]

Is it as simple as splicing in more length of wire when relocating the MAF?
If I were to vent the bypass to the inlet before the turbocharger and after the MAF is there a minimum distance that it should be done past the Maf? I could picture giving a pretty turbulent blast to the incoming air if you were to put the bypass back in too close to the MAF.
I would think that if you vented the bypass to the environment, you'd likely just get a momentarily rich condition and I really couldn't see it causing that much havoc unless you are constantly having it pop off at part throttle. Someone with experience in the biz want to correct me-or show me the way? Does the EEC V adjust the A/F with the O2 sensors at WOT?

Well of course the manifold volume will need to be changed in the tuning to reflect the further distance that the MAF is placed.

You thinking on the re-entry point of the boost bypass in a drawthrough MAF configuration is correct. It is VERY critical where you place the bypass re-entry. Like you said, you will not want to place it anywhere close to the MAF because it could cause a backwash of turbulence into the MAF really screwing with the signal.

If you do run your BOV to vent to atmosphere in a drawthrough MAF system and the tune is not specially modified for that then you will run into a momentary extreme rich condition and the car will usually die. There is tuning that can be done that will iron this problem out. Keep in mind that it is not in the MAF Transfer Function where this place will be taking place.

At WOT you are likely in open loop with most vehicles (barring some trucks) Your PCM will be pulling its data from the MAFS to determine airload and base fueling on that. The O2's are for when in closed loop at warm idle and part throttle driving.

 

[jah81592]

Is it as simple as splicing in more length of wire when relocating the MAF?
If I were to vent the bypass to the inlet before the turbocharger and after the MAF is there a minimum distance that it should be done past the Maf? I could picture giving a pretty turbulent blast to the incoming air if you were to put the bypass back in too close to the MAF.
I would think that if you vented the bypass to the environment, you'd likely just get a momentarily rich condition and I really couldn't see it causing that much havoc unless you are constantly having it pop off at part throttle. Someone with experience in the biz want to correct me-or show me the way? Does the EEC V adjust the A/F with the O2 sensors at WOT?

You are right. There will only be a momentary rich condition. The bov doesn't bypass all the time. So the only time you will see this momentary condition is when the valve is bypassed which is only for a second at the most. I can tune around this, the rich condition is not eliminated but only reduced. I am not anti blow thru, I plan to also end up running a blow thru maf meter, eventually. And no the MAF is what commands the a/f at wot not the o2 sensors. As stated above, the o2 sensors are only for commanding stoich.

 

[CDW6212R]

That's the same as that alumiloy TV infomercial stuff, I got some but haven't tried it yet.

 

[jah81592]

And on the other hand, the momentary rich condition will be when the throttle blade is shut, so there shouldn't be load on the engine. However, even with this, I still don't like it.

Even with a blow thru system and under boost you will still have a momentary condition,not as much but still present. If it is tuned properly you (the end user) won't even be able to tell that there is a rich condition. You won't smell it or even see it. It isn't like it is blowing off a massive amount of air anyway. Yes the air is metered but there are tables for lost compensation anyway.-j

 

[rocket 5979]

How are things coming along Jake? Pictures?

 

[CDW6212R]

Very good, nice progress. I like the lower valance grille, it matches fine.

 

[justin146]

Its looking good so far. I was going to copy what you did on the FMIC, but hopefully my truck will be sold in about 5 days (It's on ebay)