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4.0 Remote Turbo Buildup

You turbo guys probably already know this but check it out anyways....

I got this from http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/turbo_size3.php

Turbochargers 101
This article is intended to help understand the selection of a turbocharger for your car. Whether you plan to change a normally aspirated, NA, car to turbocharged or to change, upgrade the factory turbo to a bigger unit. The article assumes you have a basic automotive knowledge.

To properly size a turbo for your vehicle you need to determine the airflow requirements of the engine. The best way to determine the engine's airflow is to measure it. Unfortunately most people do not have the ability to measure it. Therefore we do the next best thing and calculate it based on estimates. This article is not a lesson in math and therefore we'll refer to using the Auto Math calculators on this site to do the work for us. SMOKEmUP has written a neat turbo calculator which will allow you to enter information about your engine. Based on these inputs the calculator will output approximate airflow requirements of your engine. Using these airflow requirements we can then take this and plot it on turbo maps to help determine the correct compressor map for your application. So lets get started.

Understanding the turbocharger compressor map. The left side of the map has a line called the surge limit line. If the compressor operates in this region the compressor becomes unstable and turbo failure may result. The two axis of the compressor map are typically pressure ratio and air flow in lbs/min. These correlate to the engines pressure ratio (how much boost you're running) and the airflow requirements of the engine, we'll let the calculator do the math for us and figure this out as explained below. The center of the map has ovals or islands as they are commonly referred too. The islands have numbers associated to them which is the efficiency of the compressor in this area. The center island is the most efficient and each outer ring has a slightly less efficiency. The goal is to place the engine's most desired RPM range in the most efficient part of the map. Typically you try to place the air flow demands so the peak RPM is at least 65% and the peak torque falls on the most efficient part of the map. This is easier said than done.

First things first we're using SMOKEmUP's Turbo Calculator. The left side of the page contains the inputs for your engine.

Engine Displacement - Engine displacement is entered in cubic inches. This is the size of your engine. If you do know the displacement you can calculate it here. For our example we'll use 122.
Engine Type - The options are two stroke, four stroke, or rotary. Most street engines are four stroke. For our example we'll use 4 stroke.
Volumetric Efficiency (%) - This number is very critical for accurate results. The bad part is most people do not know the VE of the engine without measuring it. If your engine has been on the engine dyno you'll know exactly what the VE is. Otherwise we'll use estimates. Most stock engines have VE's between 80 - 85 %. Race engines can exceed 100%. For our example we'll assume the VE is 90%.
Boost Low Octane (PSI) - Enter the boost level you plan to run on low octane gas. For our example we'll use 14psi.
Boost High Octane (PSI) - Enter the boost level you plan to run on race gas. For our example we'll use 24 psi.
Compressor Efficiency (%) - Enter the compressor efficiency from the turbo map you select. For our example we'll use 74%.
Number of Turbo's - Enter the number of turbos you plan to run. For our example we'll use single turbo.
Intercooler Efficiency (%) - Enter the intercooler efficiency. Again the best method to obtain this number is to measure and calculate it. For our example we'll use 70%.
Air Temp (°F) - Enter the intake air temperature. For our example we'll use 77 °F.
Air Fuel Ratio - Enter the desired Air Fuel ratio. This is used to aid in sizing your fuel system. For our example we'll use 11.5.

The inputs for our example are similiar to the motors used in the Mitsubishi Ecplise, and Eagle Talon. Once we enter our information in we press the calculate button and the computer does the work in calculating the engines airflow requirements, much easier than by hand. The output from the calculator looks like below.

Low Boost Results:
Pressure Ratio 1.95
Compressor Heat Added Ideal (° F) 111.88
Compressor Heat Added Actual (° F) 151.18
Compressor Inlet Air Temp (° F) 77
Compressor Outlet Air Temp (° F) 228.18
Intercooler Inlet Air Temp (° F) 228.18
Intercooler Outlet Air Temp (° F) 122.36
Density Ratio 1.8
Low Boost
RPM Total CFM Total lb/min 11.5:1 A/F
gal/hr 11.5:1 A/F
lt/hr
1000 57.2 4.24 3.69 13.97
2000 114.39 8.48 7.38 27.93
3000 171.59 12.72 11.06 41.86
4000 228.78 16.96 14.75 55.83
5000 285.98 21.2 18.44 69.8
6000 343.17 25.45 22.13 83.76
7000 400.37 29.69 25.81 97.69
8000 457.56 33.93 29.5 111.66
High Boost Results:
Pressure Ratio 2.63
Compressor Heat Added Ideal (° F) 169.13
Compressor Heat Added Actual (° F) 228.56
Compressor Inlet Air Temp (° F) 77
Compressor Outlet Air Temp (° F) 305.56
Intercooler Inlet Air Temp (° F) 305.56
Intercooler Outlet Air Temp (° F) 145.57
Density Ratio 2.33
High Boost
RPM Total CFM Total lb/min 11.5:1 A/F
gal/hr 11.5:1 A/F
lt/hr
1000 74.17 5.5 4.78 18.09
2000 148.33 11 9.56 36.18
3000 222.5 16.5 14.35 54.31
4000 296.66 22 19.13 72.41
5000 370.83 27.5 23.91 90.5
6000 445 33 28.69 108.59
7000 519.16 38.5 33.47 126.68
8000 593.33 43.99 38.26 144.81


What the calculator did for us is based on the input parameters it calculated the engines airflow requirements. Now we can take this information and select different turbo chargers to plot this information on. Again we don't want to print out a bunch of turbo maps and try to figure out where these points are on the turbo map so we let the calculator do the work for us. SMOKEmUP has a list of over 40 different turbo's you can choose. Simply select which two turbos you want to compare and press plot. The computer will plot the calculated information on the maps for you.

Since this example is based on the Mitsubishi engine we selected two turbo's. The stock 14B turbo and a Garrett T04B V1/V2. Below is the ouput from the calculator on these two compressor maps.




Ok...Now what? What you have is a plot of the engine's peak airflow requirements plotted on the turbo maps you selected. Let's look more closely at the turbo's we selected. The compressor map on the left is for the 14B turbo which comes stock on the car. The line in red is the engines airflow requirements for the engine running at the low boost level. The 1K, 2K .... through 8K points are the engine airflow at each 1000 rpm increment. You can see that at approximately 6500 rpm the airflow requirements are off the map. Now looking at the high boost plot, in blue, you'll notice the engine is off the map at approximately 6000 rpm. Also notice that the plot shows the turbo is performing outside of the peak efficiency of the turbo. In general Mitsubishi did a good job in sizing this turbo for the application.


So your friend has this big Garrett turbo that he'll sell to you for cheap money and it supports making much more power than your wimpy 14B turbo. So you buy the turbo get all the parts to swap for the Garrett conversion. You take the car for a ride and it's a dog below 5500 rpm. Let's see why. Now looking at the Garrett turbo map you'll see that the engine at 4K rpm is below the surge line on the map (not good). Since most of the usable power band is below the surge line this turbo is not a good choice for your vehicle.

Summary:
The goal of selecting a turbo is to select a turbo where the most amount of usable RPM band for the engine falls on the most efficient part of the turbo map.
 


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Jakee

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and if you flip over, you can use it to start camp fires cuss you ain't going nowhere.
 


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Jakee

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Let's talk boost controllers. I didn't realize that the manual boost controllers are so inexpensive. On the other hand, I found some electronic boost controllers that were way exspinsive. My question is what all is offered with a good electronic boost controller?

For example; The Greddy PROFEC e-01 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GREDDY-PROFEC-e-01-e01-ELECTRONIC-BOOST-CONTROLLER-JDM_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ019QQitemZ290183427746QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Or

http://cgi.ebay.com/Trust-GReddy-Pr...ryZ43807QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Should I go ahead and plan one of these electronic controllers or just get a manual boost controller?
 




rocket 5979

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Let's talk boost controllers. I didn't realize that the manual boost controllers are so inexpensive. On the other hand, I found some electronic boost controllers that were way exspinsive. My question is what all is offered with a good electronic boost controller?

For example; The Greddy PROFEC e-01 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GREDDY-PROFEC-e-01-e01-ELECTRONIC-BOOST-CONTROLLER-JDM_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ019QQitemZ290183427746QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Or

http://cgi.ebay.com/Trust-GReddy-Pr...ryZ43807QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Should I go ahead and plan one of these electronic controllers or just get a manual boost controller?




Jake if I were you I would just stick with a manual boost controller for now; if even that. There is no necessity for a boost controller, electric or manual. Sometimes it is nice to change boost levels at the flip of a switch but it all depends on how much you believe you will be doing that.

The reason the manual boost controllers are so cheap is because all they are is an adjustable pressure differential bleed valve. Very simple piece of equipment.

The reason why the electronic boost controllers are so expensive is because the features they have to have with them in order to control things remotely. The electronic boost controller usually has a manifold pressure sensor (MAP) that will tell you how much boost you are running. An electronic boost gauge in short. It also has an adjustable valve like I mentioned earlier but controlled by an electronic step motor which is in turn controlled by its own internal computer electronics with memory functions to save the boost levels you preset into the memory. Some have more features than this but the above is the overall simple breakdown.

They can get as complicated as:

-Gear based boost mapping. For instance running only 10 psi in first gear then 20 in second and so on once traction has been achieved. Similar principle as a progressive nitrous controller.
-Boost memory functions.
-Overboost alarms.
-Temporary high boost on demand for a preset time period. For when you want to "pass" someone.
-Auto boost drop. If the boost controller senses a problem with over/underboost it can default to a lower and safer boost setting.
 




Jakee

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So I can mount a sensor on my bumper, and when the sensor picks up that I'm loosing a race, it'll increase boost until I win? Or blow up...



;) Okay, i'm bored.
 




Jakee

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Here's a program I downloaded awhile back just to play with. It seems to be okay for looking at older compressor maps (TurboCalc), and you can plot points by RPM. To sum it up, you want as many plotted points in the middle island thru-out the RPM range, so you click thru the different maps until you find the best match. Only thing is the maps are limited in here but it'll give you an idea of how to start figuring things out.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.turbofast.com.au/freesoftware.html
 




Jakee

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Marking angles on pipes.

Here's a little tip I learned. When you need a good line for an angle you plan to cut on some pipe, and only have a cut-off wheel to do the job, mark the pipe as best as you can with a sharpie. Then, fill a bucket with some water; add a little die to it; then dip the pipe in at the angle you need. Pull the pipe out and let dry for a minute, then cut away with your cut off tool.
 




rocket 5979

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Here's a little tip I learned. When you need a good line for an angle you plan to cut on some pipe, and only have a cut-off wheel to do the job, mark the pipe as best as you can with a sharpie. Then, fill a bucket with some water; add a little die to it; then dip the pipe in at the angle you need. Pull the pipe out and let dry for a minute, then cut away with your cut off tool.



You cheater. Been reading on theturboforums hey? I took the faster way out. I just bought a used one year old 14" Dewalt metal chopsaw from Craigslist for a little over $100. It was damn near still new. You would be suprised by how accurate I could cut with that thing once I got a good system down. I got it as accurate to +/- 1 degree. Not bad. The dye method works real well too if you only have a 4.5" grinder with cutoff wheel. With all the cuts that I had to make it would have taken twice as long to do the dye method. Still a pretty smart idea.


The correct dye cutting method (no pun intended) is to mark your long point and short point of the pipe with a sharpie. Then submerge till both your lines are on the water/dye (food coloring) line while making sure the pipe is still held vertical on the other axis. Then take out and let dry. Once dry then trace the line with a sharpie as it is still very hard to see with just the dye. What the dye method really works well for is making and matching merge pipes together. That is something that a chopsaw cannot replace.
 




Jakee

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Actually, my neighbor showed me how to do it. It's something so simple, yet I've never thought about it. I used to get as close as possible and then grind flat.


Robert - How's the tuning coming with the LS?
 




rocket 5979

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Actually, my neighbor showed me how to do it. It's something so simple, yet I've never thought about it. I used to get as close as possible and then grind flat.


Robert - How's the tuning coming with the LS?



Oh ok. I just cut mine with the chopsaw then cleaned things up with a little file.

The LS is more or less tuned. I have a slight lean tip in that I wanted to dedicate an hour or two towards but the weather hasn't been agreeing lately.
 




jah81592

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If you are going to do a boost controller, why don't you keep it simple like the STS style dial boost. A switch,solenoid and a manual boost controller. It is effective and simple. You have the wastegate spring setting and at the flip of a switch you have the amount of boost you determined with the dial. I like mine and have never had a problem with it!
 




rocket 5979

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If you are going to do a boost controller, why don't you keep it simple like the STS style dial boost. A switch,solenoid and a manual boost controller. It is effective and simple. You have the wastegate spring setting and at the flip of a switch you have the amount of boost you determined with the dial. I like mine and have never had a problem with it!



They are pretty simple. I have one for my TurboLS too; just haven't installed it yet. Some people are satisfied with the simple bare-bones BC's while others want the fancy ones with all the bells and whistles.
 




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I am running 123,987 Torr! I love boost!
 




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Yes, I've decided to just go with a manual boost controller. Nothing fancy needed for me.


The intercooler and piping up front should be going in this week.
 




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Yes, I've decided to just go with a manual boost controller. Nothing fancy needed for me.


The intercooler and piping up front should be going in this week.


Good luck with that part. I will be adding a FMIC someday(if no one buys the truck first), but I will have to take alot of the front end apart to do that. You have a little more room under the hood than I do though.
 




rocket 5979

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I am running 123,987 Torr! I love boost!

Really????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I am running 879 torrs in my Explorer. Only 129 on the LS. :(
 




rocket 5979

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Good luck with that part. I will be adding a FMIC someday(if no one buys the truck first), but I will have to take alot of the front end apart to do that. You have a little more room under the hood than I do though.



Justin, if I can fit a decent sized FMIC into the front end of my Lincoln LS then I am sure you can fit a good sized one in the front of your X.
 




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It can be done but It's not going to be easy on my ride. I've already noticed that I may have to go with something smaller. No problem cuss a friend already offered to buy the one I have.

I'll try and get some pics soon.
 




rocket 5979

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It can be done but It's not going to be easy on my ride. I've already noticed that I may have to go with something smaller. No problem cuss a friend already offered to buy the one I have.

I'll try and get some pics soon.



You got the same one James has, right? What is in the way of fitting it in there?
 




justin146

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Justin, if I can fit a decent sized FMIC into the front end of my Lincoln LS then I am sure you can fit a good sized one in the front of your X.


The problem isnt fitting the intercooler, it is running the tubing to it. You know how little room there is in the 5.0's engine bay. My intercooler is doing a great job where it is now though :)
 


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rocket 5979

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The problem isnt fitting the intercooler, it is running the tubing to it. You know how little room there is in the 5.0's engine bay. My intercooler is doing a great job where it is now though :)


That tubing is pretty small. I am sure it will take a little creativity but I would bet it is doable without too much hassle.
 




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