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4.0 Remote Turbo Buildup

You turbo guys probably already know this but check it out anyways....

I got this from http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/turbo_size3.php

Turbochargers 101
This article is intended to help understand the selection of a turbocharger for your car. Whether you plan to change a normally aspirated, NA, car to turbocharged or to change, upgrade the factory turbo to a bigger unit. The article assumes you have a basic automotive knowledge.

To properly size a turbo for your vehicle you need to determine the airflow requirements of the engine. The best way to determine the engine's airflow is to measure it. Unfortunately most people do not have the ability to measure it. Therefore we do the next best thing and calculate it based on estimates. This article is not a lesson in math and therefore we'll refer to using the Auto Math calculators on this site to do the work for us. SMOKEmUP has written a neat turbo calculator which will allow you to enter information about your engine. Based on these inputs the calculator will output approximate airflow requirements of your engine. Using these airflow requirements we can then take this and plot it on turbo maps to help determine the correct compressor map for your application. So lets get started.

Understanding the turbocharger compressor map. The left side of the map has a line called the surge limit line. If the compressor operates in this region the compressor becomes unstable and turbo failure may result. The two axis of the compressor map are typically pressure ratio and air flow in lbs/min. These correlate to the engines pressure ratio (how much boost you're running) and the airflow requirements of the engine, we'll let the calculator do the math for us and figure this out as explained below. The center of the map has ovals or islands as they are commonly referred too. The islands have numbers associated to them which is the efficiency of the compressor in this area. The center island is the most efficient and each outer ring has a slightly less efficiency. The goal is to place the engine's most desired RPM range in the most efficient part of the map. Typically you try to place the air flow demands so the peak RPM is at least 65% and the peak torque falls on the most efficient part of the map. This is easier said than done.

First things first we're using SMOKEmUP's Turbo Calculator. The left side of the page contains the inputs for your engine.

Engine Displacement - Engine displacement is entered in cubic inches. This is the size of your engine. If you do know the displacement you can calculate it here. For our example we'll use 122.
Engine Type - The options are two stroke, four stroke, or rotary. Most street engines are four stroke. For our example we'll use 4 stroke.
Volumetric Efficiency (%) - This number is very critical for accurate results. The bad part is most people do not know the VE of the engine without measuring it. If your engine has been on the engine dyno you'll know exactly what the VE is. Otherwise we'll use estimates. Most stock engines have VE's between 80 - 85 %. Race engines can exceed 100%. For our example we'll assume the VE is 90%.
Boost Low Octane (PSI) - Enter the boost level you plan to run on low octane gas. For our example we'll use 14psi.
Boost High Octane (PSI) - Enter the boost level you plan to run on race gas. For our example we'll use 24 psi.
Compressor Efficiency (%) - Enter the compressor efficiency from the turbo map you select. For our example we'll use 74%.
Number of Turbo's - Enter the number of turbos you plan to run. For our example we'll use single turbo.
Intercooler Efficiency (%) - Enter the intercooler efficiency. Again the best method to obtain this number is to measure and calculate it. For our example we'll use 70%.
Air Temp (°F) - Enter the intake air temperature. For our example we'll use 77 °F.
Air Fuel Ratio - Enter the desired Air Fuel ratio. This is used to aid in sizing your fuel system. For our example we'll use 11.5.

The inputs for our example are similiar to the motors used in the Mitsubishi Ecplise, and Eagle Talon. Once we enter our information in we press the calculate button and the computer does the work in calculating the engines airflow requirements, much easier than by hand. The output from the calculator looks like below.

Low Boost Results:
Pressure Ratio 1.95
Compressor Heat Added Ideal (° F) 111.88
Compressor Heat Added Actual (° F) 151.18
Compressor Inlet Air Temp (° F) 77
Compressor Outlet Air Temp (° F) 228.18
Intercooler Inlet Air Temp (° F) 228.18
Intercooler Outlet Air Temp (° F) 122.36
Density Ratio 1.8
Low Boost
RPM Total CFM Total lb/min 11.5:1 A/F
gal/hr 11.5:1 A/F
lt/hr
1000 57.2 4.24 3.69 13.97
2000 114.39 8.48 7.38 27.93
3000 171.59 12.72 11.06 41.86
4000 228.78 16.96 14.75 55.83
5000 285.98 21.2 18.44 69.8
6000 343.17 25.45 22.13 83.76
7000 400.37 29.69 25.81 97.69
8000 457.56 33.93 29.5 111.66
High Boost Results:
Pressure Ratio 2.63
Compressor Heat Added Ideal (° F) 169.13
Compressor Heat Added Actual (° F) 228.56
Compressor Inlet Air Temp (° F) 77
Compressor Outlet Air Temp (° F) 305.56
Intercooler Inlet Air Temp (° F) 305.56
Intercooler Outlet Air Temp (° F) 145.57
Density Ratio 2.33
High Boost
RPM Total CFM Total lb/min 11.5:1 A/F
gal/hr 11.5:1 A/F
lt/hr
1000 74.17 5.5 4.78 18.09
2000 148.33 11 9.56 36.18
3000 222.5 16.5 14.35 54.31
4000 296.66 22 19.13 72.41
5000 370.83 27.5 23.91 90.5
6000 445 33 28.69 108.59
7000 519.16 38.5 33.47 126.68
8000 593.33 43.99 38.26 144.81


What the calculator did for us is based on the input parameters it calculated the engines airflow requirements. Now we can take this information and select different turbo chargers to plot this information on. Again we don't want to print out a bunch of turbo maps and try to figure out where these points are on the turbo map so we let the calculator do the work for us. SMOKEmUP has a list of over 40 different turbo's you can choose. Simply select which two turbos you want to compare and press plot. The computer will plot the calculated information on the maps for you.

Since this example is based on the Mitsubishi engine we selected two turbo's. The stock 14B turbo and a Garrett T04B V1/V2. Below is the ouput from the calculator on these two compressor maps.




Ok...Now what? What you have is a plot of the engine's peak airflow requirements plotted on the turbo maps you selected. Let's look more closely at the turbo's we selected. The compressor map on the left is for the 14B turbo which comes stock on the car. The line in red is the engines airflow requirements for the engine running at the low boost level. The 1K, 2K .... through 8K points are the engine airflow at each 1000 rpm increment. You can see that at approximately 6500 rpm the airflow requirements are off the map. Now looking at the high boost plot, in blue, you'll notice the engine is off the map at approximately 6000 rpm. Also notice that the plot shows the turbo is performing outside of the peak efficiency of the turbo. In general Mitsubishi did a good job in sizing this turbo for the application.


So your friend has this big Garrett turbo that he'll sell to you for cheap money and it supports making much more power than your wimpy 14B turbo. So you buy the turbo get all the parts to swap for the Garrett conversion. You take the car for a ride and it's a dog below 5500 rpm. Let's see why. Now looking at the Garrett turbo map you'll see that the engine at 4K rpm is below the surge line on the map (not good). Since most of the usable power band is below the surge line this turbo is not a good choice for your vehicle.

Summary:
The goal of selecting a turbo is to select a turbo where the most amount of usable RPM band for the engine falls on the most efficient part of the turbo map.
 


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Xan

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Its looking good so far. I was going to copy what you did on the FMIC, but hopefully my truck will be sold in about 5 days (It's on ebay)

Were you joking? I'm looking for a new car, i looked for it and couldnt find it
 


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justin146

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jah81592

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Okay - A little update here..


The cold side has been completely mocked up. I then pulled it back apart and sent it to Dad to weld up. It's actually been there for awhile because we had a death in the family. Also, I order the STS PCV evac system. What this does is; once a certain boost level is present, the system vents to the atmosphere. When not in boost, everything is normal (Goes back into the engine). Lastly, I ordered the SCT BA 2600 MAF meter and picked up a autolite boost gauge.

I still need some other parts but I'm slowly making progress. I was planning on taking next week off and finishing this up but that fell thru. I hope to have this done in the next couple of months. As soon as I get something worth posting, I'll post pics. When I get it running, I'll post a vid. Maybe I'll take a vid of James tuning it?


Looks like progress is going good. :thumbsup:I haven't been able to surf the forums lately due to income tax time being my busiest of the year. When you get everything installed and able to do some logs, we will get you started so you can drive down the road just to ensure everything is good before I come to your location to tune. Your driveability will be complete before I get there so all we have to do is wot tuning. -j
 




Xan

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I got the SCT BA2600 meter from Hensonperformance and all I can say is that thing is pretty dang big. Bigger than I expected....

Lets see some pictures compared with something, How big is it?
 




justin146

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And since the BA2600 has a built in IAT sensor, it is a direct swap. If you would have gone with a Lightning MAF, you would have had to install an IAT sensor bung and splice some wires.
 




rocket 5979

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Hey James and Robert. I have one concern about where I'm mounting this MAF. I can only get maybe 12" of straight pipe right before it. I'll post some mock-up pics of it soon. Please let me know if you think it's going to cause any problems.


12" of straight pipe before the MAFS is not bad. I think you will be just fine with that. I do suggest that you transition from the smaller pipe to your 3.5" tubing as far before the MAFS as possible; maybe even coming right out of the FMIC. That will also minimize turbulence going into the MAFS. With the room in your engine bay I think you will probably be just fine with the MAFS placement and intake tube configuration.
 




justin146

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Hey James and Robert. I have one concern about where I'm mounting this MAF. I can only get maybe 12" of straight pipe right before it. I'll post some mock-up pics of it soon. Please let me know if you think it's going to cause any problems.

And remember, it needs to be after the intercooler.
 




rocket 5979

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And remember, it needs to be after the intercooler.

Hehehehe. I would really hope he already knew this. Also, it would be a pain in the rear to route the charge pipe up to place the MAFS in, then go back down to the FMIC, and then back up on the other side to the intake. :confused: If Jakee didn't already know that then he would have no place doing his own custom turbo system.
 




rocket 5979

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Wait. I thought the MAF meter went in the exhaust? ;)

All is good but I've already got 3" coming out of the FMIC. Also, the 3" to (4" actually) is happening right when entering the engine bay and right before the MAF. The transition is very gradual; like around 6" maybe? If you get the picture, will this work okay?

I ran into one snag with the wideband. Can you run the LC1 with an autometer air/fuel gage? It's not working to good for me right now and I'm not sure what more needs to be done; Or, if there's anything that can be done to make this work. I still have the innovative gauge but I don't really like the looks of it. ANy suggestions?



What exactly is "right before the MAF"??? It is good to have the transition be gradual so airflow has a better chance to follow the contours of the tube and cause less turbulence but it is best to place that 3"-4" transition as far away from the MAFS as possible.

You should be able to easily hook the LC-1 to the Autometer gauge or any other AFR gauge. Are you sure you have the Autometer gauge hooked up to the right analog wire and have the subsequent analog output configured correctly? For the first 20-30 seconds while the O2 sensor is warming up the gauge will incrementally read rich at first and then go leaner and leaner and so on. Once the system is warmed up then you will see the gauge much more responsive and moving around when the engine is started. Also, did you do the free air calibration yet? How far with the wideband have you gotten? I suggest that you just concentrate on the turbo first and get all the construction for it buttoned up and then just have an electrical day dedicated to your gauges, PCV bypass, oil system pump, warning buzzer and so on. I find it better for me if I am in one mode only. I am either in metal fabrication mode or electrical mode or so on. Attempting to concentrate on more than one thing will make you lose focus and screw things up.
 




Turdle

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I'm very interested in how you make this work with the autometer gauge. I have one also and would prefer to leave it be. :D
How did yours act when wired straight into the upstream sensor? Once James got my driveability tune dialed in, Mine started behaving just about right. Before it just bounced around in a pretty light show--
 




rocket 5979

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I got the wide band hooked up complete but I have to program output 2 for 1V = AFR 7.7, 0V = AFR 21.7 for use with the autometer. I need to re-do the calibration routines.

I'll shoot some pics of what I have planned. I may have to start over with this section but oh well.



Programming the LC-1 is easy as pie. Input your numbers for the Autometer gauge voltage/AFR inputs into 4 different boxes in the corresponding analog #2 tab and you are done. I also suggest that you go into the advanced analog settings and change the response time to something slower like 1/3 second or even 1/6 second. That will minimize your gauge having a light show and jumping all around hell's creation. Overall easy day bro.
 




rocket 5979

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Okay plan B.

What I can do is switch sides from the intercooler and that will enable me to have almost 2' of straight pipe before the MAF. The MAF will have to be under the truck; right below the e-fan on the passengers side. I will need to extend the MAF wires.

Robert - James? Do you like plan B more?



I think you will likely be ok with plan A but I do suggest that you step up to the tubing that is the same size as your MAFS housing further than 12" before. I suggest the piece of tubing that is shown in one of the last pictures that has the MAFS stuck on the top of it be reconfigured a bit. I am attaching a picture of what I am talking about. This way will allow you to minimize air turbulence that the MAFS see's because you now have a fairly straight piece of tube going to the MAFS and it also doesn't change diameter for a while before the MAFS also.
 

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rocket 5979

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I want to mention another item on a more cosmetic note. If I were you I would cut the flange off of the MAFS housing and weld the housing to your intake tube so that it is all one piece. Otherwise you have that ugly big flange and its adapter there that kill the sexxy lines of the tube. Then get it all powdercoated to a color of your choice. It will look like a very professional install that way.
 




rocket 5979

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Okay - Stick with plan, move the transition, and continue on with 3.5" pipe to the same general location where the MAF is in the pic?




Yes.
 




jah81592

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MAF under the truck will work.
 




Sams01XplrSprt

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jake is ur sport turbo charged now and do u got video clips of it so we can hear the turbo
 




frickea86

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Just got threw all 8 pages, sounds like you've done your research and looks like its going to be a kick a$$ set up once completed. I hope I will be soon to follow in about a year or two. Have to get out of school first before any real money will be put towards the truck.

I have a few questions, I am very much a noob when it comes to the charged setups. I was wondering, why do you use a PCV bypass setup, is it needed, why is it needed? Just wondering, at WOT is there too much pressure for the PCV system?

Thanks guys, lots of info here, learned a few new things. Going to have to buy a welder sometime and start practicing up. Whats the best way to learn, mig or tig?
 




Richie18

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MIG is more the standard, it's easier and faster compared to TIG and probably what you'll find most people know. TIG is for thinner metals, is harder to master but can be more precise in it's application.

So you would start off with MIG most likely.
 






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