SOHC V6 Supercharger

[Dono]

Any thoughts on getting that intercooler reservoir in front of the rad where its cooler? One guy used a piece of pvc pipe and capped it in both ends, inserting an inlet/outlet. I thought that was a pretty good idea, and would open up possibilities for mounting out of the engine bay.

 

[Carguy3J]

Any thoughts on getting that intercooler reservoir in front of the rad where its cooler? One guy used a piece of pvc pipe and capped it in both ends, inserting an inlet/outlet. I thought that was a pretty good idea, and would open up possibilities for mounting out of the engine bay.

It doesn't look like he has room for much of anything in front of the rad with all those filters,etc... already there. Also, PVC isn't very efficient as far as thermal conductivety, so it wouldn't do much for cooling.

 

[jd4242]

Really should you all even be calling it a reservoir? ? Isn't it technically a overflow tank?? Shouldn't matter where its mounted as far as heat goes.only time it would get used is if the ic heat exchanger gets to hot or to high of pressure and the cap releases some fluid. I don't even have one in my setup and I've never lost any water.I've never built enough heat or pressure for the cap to release, my water in my exchanger stays very close to ambient.its not like water flows back and forth from the overflow to the cooler

 

[jd4242]

Something else to keep in mind is that the bosch pump is not a self priming pump.it needs to be lower than the front cooler or you will have to prime it the first time and make sure no air gets into the system.

 

[Dono]

The awic guys I've been reading about on other forums,so like to increase their volume of water by creating a reservoir, not just an overflow tank.
I agree there's not much room outside the engine bay on StreetRods ride, but was throwing it out there as something to keep in mind, and see if something can work.

It's just that having a reservoir might help the water stay cooler in times of no air movement. More volume of water means it will take longer for the water to get warm.

The volume increase might help in this case since the trans cooler doesn't hold the volume of water the bigger ic radiators do. StreetRod hasn't even settled on the trans cooler, but I think it could very well do the job. The fact that it's already there makes it easy to try out.

 

[jd4242]

The awic guys I've been reading about on other forums,so like to increase their volume of water by creating a reservoir, not just an overflow tank.
I agree there's not much room outside the engine bay on StreetRods ride, but was throwing it out there as something to keep in mind, and see if something can work.

It's just that having a reservoir might help the water stay cooler in times of no air movement. More volume of water means it will take longer for the water to get warm.

The volume increase might help in this case since the trans cooler doesn't hold the volume of water the bigger ic radiators do. StreetRod hasn't even settled on the trans cooler, but I think it could very well do the job. The fact that it's already there makes it easy to try out.

How are they doing that? Are they modifying the fill cap so its not a pressure cap or is it inline some how having an inlet and outlet?

because otherwise its two isolated systems till one over heats or reaches to much pressure.the water in the overflow never goes into the sealed ic system.once the cap releases the pressure it closes.why most people just plum it into the engine radiator overflow.no real need for two

 

[jd4242]

Overflow

Reservoir

Its either one or the other.two totally different systems

 

[jd4242]

There's not much room available for an intercooler pump. There's a little bit of room forward and below the air filter enclosure.
View attachment 73883
I need to find the dimensions of the Bosch pump. I'd probably have to do some cutting for inlet/outlet port hoses. Another possibility is forward and below the battery tray but I'd like to keep that space reserved for a possible (but unlikely) electric power steering pump.
View attachment 73885

Probably the easiest solution is where the radiator and window wash reservoirs are.
View attachment 73884
I could purchase narrow replacements making room for the intercooler pump and reservoir.
View attachment 73886

If you need more room under the hood, why not relocate the battery to the cab

 

[2000StreetRod]

Reservoir not overflow

Good discussion! Since I don't have a tank attached to my core I need a remote pressurized reservoir. Coolant flow:

Reservoir > pump > ATF cooler > intercooler > reservoir

The reservoir capacity should be significant to act as a thermal stabilizer. That way the ATF cooler doesn't require continuous boost cooling capacity. My Volvo turbo wagon has a pressurized "overflow" tank. The pressure cap is on the remote tank instead of the radiator. The designed tank level when the coolant is cool is low enough to accomodate coolant expansion when hot. One disadvantage is you can't remove the cap to add coolant when the engine is running or when the coolant is hot. I think it would fit nicely where my Sport windshield washer reservoir is. I have a spare with a broken low level sensor to test fit. Thanks for the tip that the pump needs to be lower than the reservoir to prime.

 

[Dono]

"Reservoir > pump > ATF cooler > intercooler > reservoir"

That's the flow perfectly.
The overflow line is a different part of the system all together. I'll just be T'ing in to my existing overflow line as I'll be running a 50/50 mix of water/antifreeze just like my engine cooling system. I doubt my system will ever pressurize as it will stay cool, but I might not be understanding how the system pressurizes completely so its better to be safe and plan for it.

I'm thinking I would like to do a remote fill on my setup also, as I don't know how I will get all the air out of my system as my front radiator is not the high point in the system. To get all the air out, don't we need to fill from the highest point?

StreetRod, sorry for polluting your thread. Its a good thing that there is so much interest in inter-cooling right now. We are all learning a lot.

 

[jd4242]

"Reservoir > pump > ATF cooler > intercooler > reservoir"

That's the flow perfectly.
The overflow line is a different part of the system all together. I'll just be T'ing in to my existing overflow line as I'll be running a 50/50 mix of water/antifreeze just like my engine cooling system. I doubt my system will ever pressurize as it will stay cool, but I might not be understanding how the system pressurizes completely so its better to be safe and plan for it.

I'm thinking I would like to do a remote fill on my setup also, as I don't know how I will get all the air out of my system as my front radiator is not the high point in the system. To get all the air out, don't we need to fill from the highest point?

StreetRod, sorry for polluting your thread. Its a good thing that there is so much interest in inter-cooling right now. We are all learning a lot.

I stuck a large funnel into the fill cap that fits air tight and filled it with fluid till all the air got out.old trick I saw someone do to fill there radiator. Once the air is out and primed you won't have to worry about it again unless you get a leak.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Turbo wagon tank

. . . StreetRod, sorry for polluting your thread. Its a good thing that there is so much interest in inter-cooling right now. We are all learning a lot.

The first post in this thread states: "The purpose of this thread is to discuss the design and possible development and installation of a supercharger for my 2000 Sport SOHC V6 engine." It seems to me that's exactly what we're doing. I'm learning and benefitting from the discussions and my Sport supercharger implementation will be improved as a result.

I dug out my spare "overflow" tank from the Volvo 850 storage box. As you can see there is a pressure cap on the top and a 45 degree corner in the upper right.

The port in the lower left is the overflow connection. The 45 degree corned fits well with the angle of my proposed main intake and the overflow port would be toward the fenderwell/firewall.

While it doesn't look like it in the photo because the tank is closer to the camera than the other two reservoirs, there is actually enough room for the tank to fit between the washer reservoir and the air filter enclosure. The tank isn't quite as deep as I would prefer but I think the capacity might be adequate.

If it were much deeper there wouldn't be enough room for the vertical port (outlet to pump in my application). The overflow port is small and will have to be enlarged for the return coolant from the intercooler.

The photo below shows the bottom of the tank with the broken off fluid level low sensor electrical connection - the reason I purchased another one.

The tank has internal baffles to add enough strength for presssurization. They also keep the coolant from sloshing excessively. I think I can open the overflow port from the outside inward toward the center of the tank and insert a fitting thru the top opening into the enlarged port and tighten a nut on it from the outside to make a pressure capable inlet port. I'll experiment with my spare and if things look promising I'll purchase another with a working level sensor. This one is full of crud which is why it has the yellow tint and would take a lot of work to clean up properly.

My idea is to convert the existing washer reservoir to a radiator coolant recovery tank. The cap will even swap from the existing coolant tank to the washer tank. I'll purchase a rear washer reservoir/pump and plumb it from the rear to the front for the windshield. That will be a low priority.

The issue now is where to locate the intercooler pump. I bid on one last night ($54) but was outbid. Then this morning I was notified of a second chance bid because either the winning bidder backed out or there was a second one available. I suspect that's a scam by the seller to drive the price up in lieu of establishing a "reserve". The same thing happened to me last week on something else I was outbid on but then purchased on a second chance. Anyway, I didn't buy the pump because it didn't have an electrical connector with pigtails or a mounting bracket and was used. I can get a new one with those items for about $120.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Pump above right front body bolt

I've decided to try and fit the intercooler pump below and forward of the air filter enclosure base and above the body to frame bolt as shown in this photo posted by ShadowRaven.

There's about 11 inches of vertical space just above the bolt. The lower channel next to the vacuum bulb is about 3.5 inches x 4.0 inches. That's enough for the motor diameter but not enough for the impeller. The electrical connector will be on the bottom and the impeller and ports on top. I'll have to cut out some metal behind the headlight for the impeller. The photo below posted by aldive shows the lower section of the planned mounting area.

On the photo below posted by obie I've drawn in the area on the header panel where a section will have to be removed for the impeller.

The photo below shows the approximate area where I'll cut a hole for the pump outlet port.

The outlet port and hose will then merge with all of this:

 

[Dono]

That looks like a pretty trick spot.
Looks pretty safe for the pump.

 

[CDW6212R]

I have been planning to find one of the OEM pressurized overflow bottles to use. The IC bottles of a Lightning or Cobra would be the proper design for the IC system function. I wonder if the normal radiator overflow bottles would work from any late model, the kind that is pressurized with the system, and there is no cap on the radiator.

I'd like to find one that is shaped to fit best in our engine bays, they come in all kinds of shapes.

 

[2000StreetRod]

small volume

I have been planning to find one of the OEM pressurized overflow bottles to use. The IC bottles of a Lightning or Cobra would be the proper design for the IC system function. I wonder if the normal radiator overflow bottles would work from any late model, the kind that is pressurized with the system, and there is no cap on the radiator.

I'd like to find one that is shaped to fit best in our engine bays, they come in all kinds of shapes.

The Cobra overflow tank appears to have a small volume.

It's shaped to fit the top of the radiator fan shroud where its mounted and would be a lot less work to install if it fits in the Explorer space available. My main intake would no longer be in that area.

The overflow port is small and there's no room to enlarge it.

A new inlet port would have to be installed on the flat side near the top. It's definitely worth further consideration.

Edit: It's larger than I realized! I don't know if there's that much room in the Explorer and the ports would be on the wrong side (driver instead of passenger).

I suspect that my stock A/C manifold would be in the way. The Lightning looks more promising.

 

[Dono]

Too bad your not seeing anything available that can sit in front of your header panel. Id sure like to see the tank in a cooler spot. I just cant see it being a good thing having the tank in the engine bay taking on heat.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Engine bay temperature

Too bad your not seeing anything available that can sit in front of your header panel. Id sure like to see the tank in a cooler spot. I just cant see it being a good thing having the tank in the engine bay taking on heat.

As I recall my engine bay temperature after the engine is warmed up and the vehicle is stopped is around 150 degrees even when the ambient temperature is only 70 degrees. However, as soon as the vehicle gets moving the temperature rapidly drops to just a little above ambient. I have a lot already obstructing airflow to the radiator and prefer not to significantly increase the blockage.

I checked with Fast OEM parts and the coolant reservoir for the 1999 thru2004 F-150 Lightning has been discontinued. I doubt there are many still available in salvage yards.

 

[Carguy3J]

Given that plain water, at normal atmospheric pressure, doesn't boil until 212 deg F, why even mess around with trying to make a pressurized system? I highly doubt the IC water temp will ever get that high, assuming a sufficient volume of water within the system, and a even half-way decent cooling arrangement. I mean, its not engine coolant, absorbing combustion heat. Adding a little anti-freeze, or water wetter is only going to raise that boiling point further.

Also, given the limited real estate under the hood / in the front in general, with all your other coolers,filters,etc..., why not just put the pump, heat exchanger, and reservoir all in the back, like where a remote mount turbo would be? You could tuck the heat exchanger up under the rear bumper area, at an angle, to catch airflow. You could even make a small scoop or duct work to capture under vehicle air and direct through the rad/heat exchanger, and then direct it out a diffuser like device. This way, all you need to get the front is the feed/return lines. Much of that could be made from plain household copper plumbing, section of flexible hose where needed.

It just seems, as you "cram" more stuff under the hood, you're making it harder and harder to service anything. Also, the more finned items you stack in front of each other, the less efficient they all become.

 

[2000StreetRod]

iat vs reservoir temperature

Given that plain water, at normal atmospheric pressure, doesn't boil until 212 deg F, why even mess around with trying to make a pressurized system? I highly doubt the IC water temp will ever get that high, assuming a sufficient volume of water within the system, and a even half-way decent cooling arrangement. I mean, its not engine coolant, absorbing combustion heat. Adding a little anti-freeze, or water wetter is only going to raise that boiling point further.

I think jd4242 posted that his IATs were a little above 160 degrees when his tune began retarding the ignition advance. I doubt that his IATs exceeded 180 so your comment is valid. On the other hand Dono posted that his IAT attained 237 degrees on at least one occasion. That was probably due to his rotors being installed incorrectly but it does indicate what's possible. The racers seemed inclined to go pressurized as do some of the high performance vehicle manufacturers. I'm inclined to design for the extreme condition so I don't have to worry about exceeding limits.

Also, given the limited real estate under the hood / in the front in general, with all your other coolers,filters,etc..., why not just put the pump, heat exchanger, and reservoir all in the back, like where a remote mount turbo would be? You could tuck the heat exchanger up under the rear bumper area, at an angle, to catch airflow. You could even make a small scoop or duct work to capture under vehicle air and direct through the rad/heat exchanger, and then direct it out a diffuser like device. This way, all you need to get the front is the feed/return lines. Much of that could be made from plain household copper plumbing, section of flexible hose where needed.

Locating engine related things in the rear is a plausible solution but I prefer to have engine related things in the engine compartment if possible.

It just seems, as you "cram" more stuff under the hood, you're making it harder and harder to service anything. Also, the more finned items you stack in front of each other, the less efficient they all become.

I totally agree. That's one reason I try to buy quality, reliable components and securly mount them out of the way of other components. I only have to remove the lower air deflector (4 bolts) to change all three remote filters. I'm determined not to add anything else in front of the radiator.