SOHC V6 Timing Chain Saga

[CDW6212R]

I understood what you were thinking Dale, you will get it running okay until the rebuild. You are right to avoid turning the crank, but if the crank/cams are attached close to their TDC then it's no problem.

I have used a dial caliper many many times. They are very accurate in one direction for that one measurement. But, they are not easily repeatable to make multiple measurements while having to touch or move any surrounding parts. For thousandths of inches accuracy, any slight touch kills the accuracy.

A piston stop is so simple and very very accurate with a degree wheel to find dead perfect TDC. If you just use the same gentle force of contact to touch the piston in the same spot in the two directions, it's done. The only worry of error is how far from the center of the piston the contact is. Piston rocking in the bore affects the distances to points away from the center of the piston(parallel to the crank). That amount is very minor, it amounts to less than a degree.

Mark the engine(block etc) by the degree wheel two times, and the middle point is TDC.

 

[BobWiersema]

I also thought about the angle of the spark plug to the piston top. I may have to bevel the edges of the piston stop before use.

How about this, I remember a long, long, long tine ago seeing my Grandfather put together a gadget to find TDC on his old Ford. So I looked around the net and believe it or not, I found exactly the trick he used. This is definitely something you will appreciate. Its a homemade manometer type thing.
Link - http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/tdc.html

I found a video too.
Link - http://www.tuneyfish.com/video_player.php?vid=170

It has always irritated me when manufacturers build something with inadequate foresight and then solve the problem with the use of special tools. Unfortunately, the trend is increasing and soon the shade tree mechanic will not be limited in repair capability. It may be intentional to force the purchaser to return to the dealer for repair. I enjoy the challenge of defeating their "plot". I'm confident you'll be thoroughly amused by the "calibrated tensioner" I used today to time my right camshaft.

I understand the irritation, I guess through out the years I have just accepted it. All the manufactures I deal with require special software to program their equipment. Special testing tools and on and on. I just got use to it. As for the Tensioner tool, why not just use a bolt? Isnt that all the tool is?

Bob

 

[2000StreetRod]

The right bolt would have been better

. . . As for the Tensioner tool, why not just use a bolt? Isnt that all the tool is?

Bob

At first, I was going to use a bolt but couldn't find one with the same thread as the tensioner. Then I was going to use a smaller diameter bolt with a nut on the inside but the inside surface is not flat and is not parallel to the guide contact point. I was also concerned about damaging the threads. So I just looked around and grabbed a socket.

 

[2000StreetRod]

TDC manometer

How about this, I remember a long, long, long tine ago seeing my Grandfather put together a gadget to find TDC on his old Ford. So I looked around the net and believe it or not, I found exactly the trick he used. This is definitely something you will appreciate. Its a homemade manometer type thing.
Link - http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/tdc.html

I found a video too.
Link - http://www.tuneyfish.com/video_player.php?vid=170 . . .
Bob

Thanks for the link Bob! I like the clever idea and may be modifying my compression gauge in the next few days to try it out. I will compare the accuracies of the various methods. What is good about the manometer is not having to rotate the crankshaft more than a few degrees from TDC.

 

[bluestream1]

I would think you could take an old spark plug and hollow it out. Then weld (or solder) on a barbed fitting to accept plastic tubing or clear hose. Hate to cut up a good compression guage hose...

 

[Vargas]

I have a tool that I think was listed as a "dead stop". It is an air hose QD male fitting on one end and spark plug thread on the other. I think it was about $6 when I bought it ten years ago. Its intended use is to keep valves from dropping into cylinder when servicing the valvetrain without removing the head from the engine. Add a piece of clear tubing and possibly a hose clamp...

Edit - actually called an "air hold". Several types made by K-D tools.

 

[BobWiersema]

Tools

I have a tool that I think was listed as a "dead stop". It is an air hose QD male fitting on one end and spark plug thread on the other. I think it was about $6 when I bought it ten years ago. Its intended use is to keep valves from dropping into cylinder when servicing the valvetrain without removing the head from the engine. Add a piece of clear tubing and possibly a hose clamp...

Edit - actually called an "air hold". Several types made by K-D tools.

I have that same tool set. Mine was made by SnapOn. I bought it to change the valve stem seals in my 73 Firebird

That would be the perfect fitting if you could buy it without the entire tool set. If I remember correctly, SnapOn called it a valve seal services set or something like that.

 

[BobWiersema]

Tools and Tigers and Bears,

That was easy to find. Vargas, you had the name dead on from KD.

Link -- http://www.mytoolstore.com/kd/kdengi14.html

 

[2000StreetRod]

multi-piece compression tester

My compression tester is a multi-piece set comprised of spark plug fitting, extension tube and gauge and a couple of fittings as shown below.

It should be fairly easy to rig something together with my configuration.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Left camshaft timed!

The photo below shows the plastic strips in position after removing the left camshaft bearing caps.

I loosely reinstalled the bearing caps and using an Allen wrench and a caliper as shown below I aligned the slot in the end of the camshaft.

I used a locking plier clamped to the camshaft to achieve the correct position.
Then I torqued the bearing caps to 25 in-lbs. Next I positioned my spacer and threaded the old rear hydraulic tensioner into the opening for the front tensioner as shown below.

I was too lazy to go find my old front tensioner. This was a mistake because the distance to the guide is longer in the front than in the rear. As I screwed the tensioner into the opening I was concerned that I would reach the end of the threads before the chain became taught. I was lucky and achieved a tensioner torque of 20 in-lbs just prior to the last thread reaching its stop. Next I torqued the camshaft sprocket retaining bolt to 62 ft-lbs but just as the torque wrench clicked on the setting I saw the locking plier rotate. The plastic strips did not hold and the camshaft had rotated three degrees from the correct position. I loosened the tensioner and bearing caps and repositioned the timing slot. This time I torqued the bearing caps to 35 in-lbs. I retightened the tensioner with spacer and again torqued the sprocket retaining bolt to 62 ft-lbs. This time the plastic strips prevented the camshaft from rotating.

 

[cjmedina]

The photo below shows the plastic strips in position after removing the left camshaft bearing caps.
View attachment 58839
I loosely reinstalled the bearing caps and using an Allen wrench and a caliper as shown below I aligned the slot in the end of the camshaft.
View attachment 58840
I used a locking plier clamped to the camshaft to achieve the correct position.
Then I torqued the bearing caps to 25 in-lbs. Next I positioned my spacer and threaded the old rear hydraulic tensioner into the opening for the front tensioner as shown below.
View attachment 58841
I was too lazy to go find my old front tensioner. This was a mistake because the distance to the guide is longer in the front than in the rear. As I screwed the tensioner into the opening I was concerned that I would reach the end of the threads before the chain became taught. I was lucky and achieved a tensioner torque of 20 in-lbs just prior to the last thread reaching its stop. Next I torqued the camshaft sprocket retaining bolt to 62 ft-lbs but just as the torque wrench clicked on the setting I saw the locking plier rotate. The plastic strips did not hold and the camshaft had rotated three degrees from the correct position. I loosened the tensioner and bearing caps and repositioned the timing slot. This time I torqued the bearing caps to 35 in-lbs. I retightened the tensioner with spacer and again torqued the sprocket retaining bolt to 62 ft-lbs. This time the plastic strips prevented the camshaft from rotating.

Dale,

I can't see where you locked the locking pliar's

Also is is the sprocket bolt a normal direction thread....righty tighty?


Cliff

 

[2000StreetRod]

Pliers & tighten direction

Dale,

I can't see where you locked the locking pliar's

Also is is the sprocket bolt a normal direction thread....righty tighty?


Cliff

I afixed the locking pliers on the camshaft midway between two cam lobes. Until the plastic strips are torqued, it doesn't require a lot of force to rotate the camshaft.

The right/rear camshaft sprocket retaining bolt tightens counter-clockwise. The left/front camshaft sprocket retaining bolt tightens clockwise.

 

[cjmedina]

.Ok, just to be clear.

The right/rear camshaft sprocket retaining bolt tightens counter-clockwise.

I'm assuming your looking from the front.


So from the front the wrench is at 12 o'clock then turning to 3 o'clock it would loosen.

 

[CDW6212R]

Always as you look at the head of a bolt... the left head(left side of truck) cam bolt tightens normally(right hand thread).

The right head has a left hand threaded bolt in the cam. It tightens by turning it counter clockwise... as you look at the bolt head.

 

[cjmedina]

Ok, Left hand thread on right cam sprocket bolt.

Always reference looking at bolt head.

Now I see why the extra tensioner when tightening the bolt.

Got it.

 

[2000StreetRod]

11 mm hex bit

In preparation for installing the block cradle (lower pan reinforcement section) I needed an 11 mm Allen wrench or hex bit to back out the set screws (Allen inserts). As anticipated, my Allen wrench set contained no 11 mm size and my hex bit set jumped from 10 mm to 12 mm. So I reverted to what I've done in the past as shown below.

My local fastener specialty shop provided me with a cap bolt having an 11 mm hex head and two 11 mm hex nuts. I tighened the nuts against each other on the bolt and used the device as a hex bit. I only have to torque the block cradle inserts to 27 in-lbs so the double nuts should hold on the bolt. For large torque values a bushing must be used instead of double nuts.

 

[2000StreetRod]

TDC check

To check the accuracy of my unorthodox TDC determination method (square against the flat of the rod big end) I loosely positioned the crankshaft pulley onto the crankshaft. The photo below shows how close I came.

The red arrow indicates where the faded TDC mark is on the damper. I'll check it again after torqueing the damper bolt. Then I plan to use the manometer compression gauge fitting to check the accuracy of the pointer.

 

[cjmedina]

Should be interesting.....

 

[BobWiersema]

Manometer

I cant wait to see how the manometer contraption device works out. The theory is sound. It worked for the the guy in the video.

Bob

 

[shelbygt]

In preparation for installing the block cradle (lower pan reinforcement section) I needed an 11 mm Allen wrench or hex bit to back out the set screws (Allen inserts). As anticipated, my Allen wrench set contained no 11 mm size and my hex bit set jumped from 10 mm to 12 mm. So I reverted to what I've done in the past as shown below.
View attachment 58868
My local fastener specialty shop provided me with a cap bolt having an 11 mm hex head and two 11 mm hex nuts. I tighened the nuts against each other on the bolt and used the device as a hex bit. I only have to torque the block cradle inserts to 27 in-lbs so the double nuts should hold on the bolt. For large torque values a bushing must be used instead of double nuts.

Much more inventive than me grinding the 12mm tip and it should work as you plan!