KeithH
New Member
- Joined
- March 30, 2018
- Messages
- 7
- Reaction score
- 0
- City, State
- Seattle, WA
- Year, Model & Trim Level
- 2016 Explorer Platinum
My 2016 Platinum Explorer burned up its PTU fluid to the point that the control system shut down the AWD function (44K miles.) So, they put in new fluid and charged me $358. Based on my reading of the warranty, this should be covered.
To net it out, the warranty says it does not cover “(1) parts and labor needed to maintain the vehicle; and (2) the replacement parts due to normal wear and tear.” Since this is a “lifetime” fluid, and NOT on the regular maintenance schedule, it’s my position that this fluid should not need to be replaced to maintain the vehicle (in theory), and it’s clearly not normal wear and tear.
So, after some back and forth, the Service Manager finally calls me and tells me that this IS a maintenance activity (fitting in category 1 above I assume). He bases this on the following (from a paragraph under (but separate from) the REGULAR maintenance schedule):
“Axle maintenance: The Power Transfer Unit (PTU) in your vehicle does not require any normal scheduled maintenance. The system is electronically monitored and notifies the driver of required service by displaying a message in the information display. The PTU lube will be more likely to require a fluid change if the vehicle has experienced extended periods of extreme / severe duty cycle driving. Do not check or change the PTU lubricant unless the unit has been submerged in water, shows signs of leakage or a message indicating required service is displayed. Contact your authorized dealer for service and to reset the PTU lube life monitor.” [emphasis mine]
So, let’s parse this out, the warranty doesn’t cover maintenance and normal wear and tear. OK, engine oil is not covered, got it.
1. The PTU fluid is designed to NEVER be maintained and is NOT in the regularly scheduled maintenance schedule. There’s no argument about that.
2. The only reason it needs to be changed is if there have been EXTENDED periods of EXTREME / SEVERE DUTY. The problem here is that NONE of that occurred! The car has 44K miles on it and is owned by my partner. She gets it detailed inside and out twice a month. 90% of her driving is granny-going-to-church highway miles. Nothing severe, no off-road, no towing, no nothing that could have caused this “lifetime” fluid to break down.
3. Also, the paragraph cited by the service manager indicates that IF you’ve driven it rough you should get an indicator for required service as the fluid degrades. Never happened, the first thing we knew about it was a horrific stench and an indicator light saying that the AWD was going off line. Nothing saying “Hot PTU”, or “PTU needs service”, only the AWD shutdown. Scared the hell out of my partner.
So, that’s the net of it. I feel like Ford created a POS PTU (witness all the other similar stories and the PTU lawsuit), and they won’t stand behind it. I do understand that the dealer doesn’t want to pay for the design error, but where does that leave the customers? Screwed, in my case.
I also asked for answers to the following questions (hoping they would get us to root cause.) The service manager also refused to answer my questions. So, in addition to taking my money for something that’s under warranty, they also refused to answer my completely (IMHO) reasonable questions.
1. One day before the PTU problem [the dealer] did a Multi-Point Inspection that included: “Drive shaft, transmission, u-joint and shift linkage (if equipped) and lubricate as needed.” Why wasn’t our PTU problem found and handled?
2. What was the root cause of the PTU problem? We were told that this was a “fluid failure”. OK, but I’ll need some convincing that the factory fluid that is engineered to last the vehicle’s lifetime is liable to complete failure in less than 24 hours at 44K miles (with no towing or adverse operation.) Did the Ford engineers specify an unstable fluid in a vital drive component? If it is “fluid failure”, we’d like to know what the chemical catalyst would be for such immediate breakdown in the lubricant’s properties.
3. Why was there no warning of an overheating condition? Why was the first message we got that 4WD was being disabled? That’s like a low engine oil warning turning the engine off rather than telling you to add oil.
4. Why were NO DTCs found in the diagnostic report? I’ve never plugged in OBD/RossTech/other tool and found NO DTC or messages. There’s always something even if it’s just intermittent issues and status checks. At a minimum there should have been a DTC associated with the “4WD is being turned off” message? I assume Ford would log the shutdown of a major driveline subsystem.
5. Why aren’t DTC reports, even if nothing is found, stored with the maintenance records of the vehicle? I asked to see the reports (before and after work), and was told they weren’t saved. It seems like saving them would be a best practice.
So, there it is, the proverbial stiff-arm with an absurd explanation and no recourse. I asked for the contact info of the Ford Regional Service Manager and they declined that also.
Anybody got any suggestions or know who the RSM is in Seattle?
I'll update this thread with any changes in status.
To net it out, the warranty says it does not cover “(1) parts and labor needed to maintain the vehicle; and (2) the replacement parts due to normal wear and tear.” Since this is a “lifetime” fluid, and NOT on the regular maintenance schedule, it’s my position that this fluid should not need to be replaced to maintain the vehicle (in theory), and it’s clearly not normal wear and tear.
So, after some back and forth, the Service Manager finally calls me and tells me that this IS a maintenance activity (fitting in category 1 above I assume). He bases this on the following (from a paragraph under (but separate from) the REGULAR maintenance schedule):
“Axle maintenance: The Power Transfer Unit (PTU) in your vehicle does not require any normal scheduled maintenance. The system is electronically monitored and notifies the driver of required service by displaying a message in the information display. The PTU lube will be more likely to require a fluid change if the vehicle has experienced extended periods of extreme / severe duty cycle driving. Do not check or change the PTU lubricant unless the unit has been submerged in water, shows signs of leakage or a message indicating required service is displayed. Contact your authorized dealer for service and to reset the PTU lube life monitor.” [emphasis mine]
So, let’s parse this out, the warranty doesn’t cover maintenance and normal wear and tear. OK, engine oil is not covered, got it.
1. The PTU fluid is designed to NEVER be maintained and is NOT in the regularly scheduled maintenance schedule. There’s no argument about that.
2. The only reason it needs to be changed is if there have been EXTENDED periods of EXTREME / SEVERE DUTY. The problem here is that NONE of that occurred! The car has 44K miles on it and is owned by my partner. She gets it detailed inside and out twice a month. 90% of her driving is granny-going-to-church highway miles. Nothing severe, no off-road, no towing, no nothing that could have caused this “lifetime” fluid to break down.
3. Also, the paragraph cited by the service manager indicates that IF you’ve driven it rough you should get an indicator for required service as the fluid degrades. Never happened, the first thing we knew about it was a horrific stench and an indicator light saying that the AWD was going off line. Nothing saying “Hot PTU”, or “PTU needs service”, only the AWD shutdown. Scared the hell out of my partner.
So, that’s the net of it. I feel like Ford created a POS PTU (witness all the other similar stories and the PTU lawsuit), and they won’t stand behind it. I do understand that the dealer doesn’t want to pay for the design error, but where does that leave the customers? Screwed, in my case.
I also asked for answers to the following questions (hoping they would get us to root cause.) The service manager also refused to answer my questions. So, in addition to taking my money for something that’s under warranty, they also refused to answer my completely (IMHO) reasonable questions.
1. One day before the PTU problem [the dealer] did a Multi-Point Inspection that included: “Drive shaft, transmission, u-joint and shift linkage (if equipped) and lubricate as needed.” Why wasn’t our PTU problem found and handled?
2. What was the root cause of the PTU problem? We were told that this was a “fluid failure”. OK, but I’ll need some convincing that the factory fluid that is engineered to last the vehicle’s lifetime is liable to complete failure in less than 24 hours at 44K miles (with no towing or adverse operation.) Did the Ford engineers specify an unstable fluid in a vital drive component? If it is “fluid failure”, we’d like to know what the chemical catalyst would be for such immediate breakdown in the lubricant’s properties.
3. Why was there no warning of an overheating condition? Why was the first message we got that 4WD was being disabled? That’s like a low engine oil warning turning the engine off rather than telling you to add oil.
4. Why were NO DTCs found in the diagnostic report? I’ve never plugged in OBD/RossTech/other tool and found NO DTC or messages. There’s always something even if it’s just intermittent issues and status checks. At a minimum there should have been a DTC associated with the “4WD is being turned off” message? I assume Ford would log the shutdown of a major driveline subsystem.
5. Why aren’t DTC reports, even if nothing is found, stored with the maintenance records of the vehicle? I asked to see the reports (before and after work), and was told they weren’t saved. It seems like saving them would be a best practice.
So, there it is, the proverbial stiff-arm with an absurd explanation and no recourse. I asked for the contact info of the Ford Regional Service Manager and they declined that also.
Anybody got any suggestions or know who the RSM is in Seattle?
I'll update this thread with any changes in status.