Synthetic Vs. Standard?

[JohnnyO]

Can someone show a Return on Investment (ROI) calculation on regular motor oil versus synthetics for a 150,000 mi. ST life?

Sure. Assuming constant price and changing the oil yourself:
Dino oil, $12 for 5 qt jug and $3.98 for a Motorcraft filter at Wal-Mart:
150,000/3000 miles = 50 oil changes x $15.98 = $799.00

Pennzoil Platinum, $22.98 for a 5 qt jug and $3.98 for a Motorcraft filter at Wal-Mart:
150,000/6000 miles = 25 oil changes x $25.96 = $649.00

Valvoline Synpower, $18.98, $3.98 filter at Wal-Mart:
150,000/6000 miles = 25 oil changes x $22.96 = $574.00

That said, in most cases syn is good for longer than 6000 miles. Seen several UOA's posted at www.bobistheoilguy.com with Pennzoil Platinum and some versions of Mobil 1 that were good after 10,000 miles including one from a supercharged Mustang. Myself, I wouldn't be comfortable running any oil longer than 6000 miles without getting a UOA first. I did once get a 5000 mile UOA on Mobil 1 Truck & SUV oil that was utterly awful and the lab recommended that I not run it more than 3000 miles. By then I already had Pennzoil Platinum in it anyway.

UOA's:
www.blackstone-labs.com
Costs about $22.50 last I looked.

 

[BigV]

Thats if you change your oil at 3000 miles which is a waste of money. It's cheaper to run dino oil unless you really max out the synthetic. If you take the first calculation and stretch it to 5000 miles its only 480.00. It's obviously also a factor as to how and what conditions you drive in very dusty or stop and go traffic in 100 degree heat I would change the oil much earlier. Me I drive 18 miles at about 45 mph up and down hills non-dusty conditions and the temp around here is 70-90 on average during the summer. I never sit in traffic for extended periods. Most manufactures are saying 7500 miles between oil changes with regular oil. That I do not recommend but I can't see 5000 miles being an issue. Also there are no real synthetics except Amsoil all the other oils are very highly refined dino oil. Thats why amsoil is so darn expensive.

 

[run351]

I have run synthetic in my Lightning since it was new. I beat the *&(^ out of it and I have 168,000 miles on the original engine and if you pull the dip stick it looks like new.

One thing not mentioned is leaks, for some reason the synthetic is such a fine oil it can get by the gaskets, though its not a dripping leak.

I would say the 7000 mile interval on changes is probably fine. I tend to do mine in the 3000-5000 mile range on the Lightning since 5000 miles may go three months during the winter months. The Adrenalin I will just go with the manufacturer suggestion.
As everyone knows, race vehicles or vehicles that sit and idle alot need to think of oil changes more often.

 

[aldive]

One thing not mentioned is leaks, for some reason the synthetic is such a fine oil it can get by the gaskets, though its not a dripping leak.

Thats a old wives tale and simply not based on facts.

If you have a leak with dino oil, you will indeed have a leak with synthetic.

Synthetic oil does not cause leaks.

As everyone knows, race vehicles or vehicles that sit and idle alot need to think of oil changes more often.

Most of my daily driving is less than one mile. I change my oil at 30k intervals and have excellent UOA to back it up.

 

[aldive]

That said, in most cases syn is good for longer than 6000 miles. Seen several UOA's posted at www.bobistheoilguy.com with Pennzoil Platinum and some versions of Mobil 1 that were good after 10,000 miles including one from a supercharged Mustang.

How about an Explorer after 25k miles? Take a look at http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1712708#post1712708

We have a Used Oil Analysis Data Repository on this site. Take a look at http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134084&highlight=oil+analysis

 

[Turdle]

How about an Explorer after 25k miles? Take a look at http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1712708#post1712708

We have a Used Oil Analysis Data Repository on this site. Take a look at http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134084&highlight=oil+analysis

Al, I'm curious-
What is the price of the analysis, including shipping, and, how long after I remove my sample do I get an answer?

 

[aldive]

Al, I'm curious-
What is the price of the analysis, including shipping, and, how long after I remove my sample do I get an answer?

I use Blackstone Labs ( Dead Link Removed ) for my UOAs.

Their current price is $22.50. They provide you with free sample containers, you pay postage ( $1.85 ) to them. There is an extra $10 chrge if you want a TBN analysis.

They e mail the results usually within a couply days of receiving your sample.

 

[JohnnyO]

Al, I'm curious-
What is the price of the analysis, including shipping, and, how long after I remove my sample do I get an answer?

$22.50 as Al said and I usually have the results by email in two to three weeks.
I do not get a UOA every time, maybe once a year on each vehicle unless I want to try a different oil just for kicks.
On older engines it is good to do because besides wear metals and viscosity it will show if there is antifreeze and/or water and fuel in the oil which is an early sign of a failing head gasket or intake gasket.
FWIW, I am running Mobil 1 0w-30 Fuel Economy Formula in my Sport Trac. After some earlier oil changes at first, I am running the current batch for 7500 miles with a Mobil 1 filter. My 5000 mile UOA on the previous fill of M1 0w-30 was fine.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...ords=+JohnnyO&topic=0&Search=true#Post1282065

Generally speaking I've gotten better UOA's with Pennzoil Platinum than Mobil 1 and it costs a bit less.

 

[run351]

Nobody saying that synthetic oil causes leaks,
but it you have a leak it will be more preventant with a finer oil (lighter wght)
Thats what I am implying

 

[JohnnyO]

Weight is weight. A 5w-30 dino oil will be within the same SAE viscosity specs as a 5w-30 synthetic oil. Syn flows better in uber-cold weather but that does not mean it is "thinner" to begin with. When the oil is run for a while it can become either thicker or thinner. I've seen both happen in UOA's depending on the oil and application.

FWIW I had a '91 Lincoln Continental that between me and my dad (dad bought it new) had 152,000 miles when I sold it with nothing but plain Valvoline and a Motorcraft filter every 3000 miles, and plain Valvoline is not highly-regarded by the oil geeks at BITOG.com. I had to get new head gaskets at about 120,000 miles and the engine looked like new inside (the 3.8 V6 is known for losing head gaskets). In my opinion changing the oil regularly is way more important than what oil you use. Syn's main advantage is that you can run it longer. If you're going to change it every 6000 or less, there is little or no difference in UOA's between a quality dino or blend (like Havoline or Motorcraft) and synthetics. Syn is definitely "better", but how much "better" you need is between you and your wallet.

 

[run351]

I am not looking to have a debate over motor oil, I am just saying what has worked for me and what experiences I have had with Synthetics.
I was saying a "Lighter" Synthetic oil tends to pass through the gaskets easier than conventional oils from what I have experienced. It is seems if you have a leak of any kind it will be more pronouce with a liter Synthetic oil of the same weight. I did not go into that statement with as much detail be cause I was assuming it was understood.

Run what ever oil you choose, I was just saying what has served me well for over 15 years in my truck, and now I run the same in the Adrenalin. I run 5w30.

at start up it acts like 5 weight, after reaching normal tempature it acts like 30 weight.

 

[aldive]

I was saying a "Lighter" Synthetic oil tends to pass through the gaskets easier than conventional oils

Please explain what you mean by "lighter".

Thanks

 

[run351]

Please explain what you mean by "lighter".

just for you;

oil's thickness, or viscosity. A thin oil has a lower number and flows more easily, while thick oils have a higher number and are more resistant to flow

 

[aldive]

oil's thickness, or viscosity. A thin oil has a lower number and flows more easily, while thick oils have a higher number and are more resistant to flow

This is true, however, the fact that you are missing is that a dinooil of a given rating, say 10w30, is the same thickness as a synthetic oil of the same rating.

 

[run351]

You might not have understood me correctly, I am not sure.
All I am saying is that from my experience Synthetic oils seem to flow better than convential oil, and if you have any type of leak it maybe more pronounce with Synthetic oil.

I took the time to read alittle to see if there was a better answer for you and found this article. take a look at this article.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/synthetic_vs_conventional_oil/index.html


If you disagree then that is fine, I stand by my original statement and my experiences using synthetic oils.

take care.

 

[BIGHVM]

After the warranty I would go for Synth every time- all my cars have had syth in since the 80s- I trust in good syths more than Dino, Have seen a really gunged up engine cleaned and running like a dream after a few changes using synth.
YOu got nothing to loose and everything to gain if your drive is a keeper.