Timing Chain Front Cover Removal (problem)

[rizzjc]

Anyone out there taken off the front cover from a 5.0L lately? I started out replacing the radiator on my '97, and decided to take care of the leaking front seal while I was there. Then I decided that it was enough work, and I should go ahead and put in a new timing set and water pump, so I would never have to worry about getting in there again. Problem is, I have EVERYTHING removed, except the front cover, and the darn thing won't budge. The top, where the water pump mounts to, is loose, and the right side, down by the pan shows movement, but something on the left side is stick, and it just won't budge.

Hoping someone has some pointers. I've been down for 3 weeks now, since it's tough to get consecutive days to work on it. I just don't want to mess up that front cover 'cause that's $300, added to the almost $500 I'm putting in it already. I'm able to get a putty knife between the oil pan and the cover. It appears to be holding on to the left side, just above where the cover meets the oil pan, where it bolts to the block. I've hit the bolt holes with some PB to try loosening it up. Hasn't seemed to help any.

 

[410Fortune]

did you get thye oil pan bolts that head upward? There are two bolts that you may think dont go into the cover but if I remember right they do

Could this be your hang up?

you see the 4 bolts on bottom that go up through the oil pan too?
There is also a bolt behind the crank sensor I believe, not 100% sure on this.

ONce ALL the bolts are out a rubber mallet should break it loose if not you can GENTLY pry it off

 

[CDW6212R]

Bingo, well done Jamie, there is surely a bolt or two still in there.

 

[rizzjc]

Nope. I got the 4 oil pan bolts. Two right next to the "half moon, and two around the corner ... two different sizes. Removed the crank sensor, and removed the bolt behind it as well. I don't have my mallet at my house, but I'll give that a try. I've tried a wooden block and a hammer.

If I missed a bolt, then I'm and idiot ... and blind.

Seems to be hanging right through here in your photo:

 

[CDW6212R]

Joe, the cover has to come straight out from the block, about 3/8" to clear the two guide dowels in the block. There is one on each side, the block bottom holes. Good luck,

 

[rizzjc]

Oh, no, seriously?! Could they be rusted somehow? So, maybe the mallet idea will knock it loose. I'll work on that ... when I can get back to it. Hopefully tomorrow night. Work, kids, and playtime get in the way of the important stuff.

Thanks for the pointer though. That should help!

 

[410Fortune]

GReat advice CDW I believe i had to pry on the cover just a bit being careful not to gouge it or the engine block

 

[rizzjc]

I'm hoping to not have to take the engine out in order to be able to pry at it. Might go pick up a small pry bar that's easier to get in there. Already snapped a nice screwdriver that I never shoulda stuck in there. Chisel works, but I need something with a right angle on it to get to the back of the cover. Back at it tonight I hope. The bruises on my arm are getting better.

 

[rizzjc]

Finally got back to it today. The comment by CDW about the guide pins was key. I got smart and was basically able to "wiggle" it off, pretty easily today. Then I discovered what I hoped that I would not find .... the pan gasket is one-piece, metal and rubber. I'll have to cut the old gasket, and replace it on each side with the cork gasket (I guess) that game with the gasket kit.

I also now notice that there is a lot of slack on the left side of the timing chain. I wonder if that is normal, or if I am going to notice it go away when I replace the timing set. I'll post some photos showing the slack, when I get a minute.

 

[rizzjc]

Geez! I can't catch a break no matter what I do! Ford has apparently discontinued the BOLT for the water pump to front cover. Of course, it's only the ones that rust. I'm sure they have the rest of them. F'ers! Threaded rod and a bolt is probably what I'm going to have to do, unless I want to mess around at a junk yard to find 2 bolts that are in decent shape.

Can't ANYTHING be easy?!

 

[Turdle]

Geez! I can't catch a break no matter what I do! Ford has apparently discontinued the BOLT for the water pump to front cover. Of course, it's only the ones that rust. I'm sure they have the rest of them. F'ers! Threaded rod and a bolt is probably what I'm going to have to do, unless I want to mess around at a junk yard to find 2 bolts that are in decent shape.

Can't ANYTHING be easy?!

Picture of bolt?
( I have a bunch of extras)

 

[rizzjc]

Will post photo when I get home. Thanks!

 

[rizzjc]

Here is the bolt, on ruler, for reference. If someone's got 1-2, that would be awesome!

 

[rizzjc]

OK, so I was a little surprised that with the amount of slop in the chain that I *thought* I had, this is how the timing marks line up. Looks pretty darn dead on to me:

Here is the chain, my finger isn't touching it:

And here I am pressing the chain tight, to show the difference:

It flops around pretty good, which is why I was really surprised that the timing marks lined up dead on. All looks good? I'm about to go down an unbolt it and replace the timing set, hoping that nothing comes out of line while I am doing it.

 

[rizzjc]

One more view, up close:

 

[rizzjc]

I photo is in order ... only because getting the new timing set on was a total b*tch! Coulda used that slack from the old chain - that woulda helped. So, what I don't get is, how did the old chain have all that slack, but the timing marks appeared to line up perfectly??

 

[Turdle]

I have a request--
When you put it all back together--and the timing marks are still in line. Check the timing mark on your harmonic balancer. Mine was 6 degrees off after 102k miles. Due to the 3 piece design, it can slip. This will mess the ignition timing, as it is triggered by the tone ring on the dampener--

 

[Turdle]

I photo is in order ... only because getting the new timing set on was a total b*tch! Coulda used that slack from the old chain - that woulda helped. So, what I don't get is, how did the old chain have all that slack, but the timing marks appeared to line up perfectly??

They do stretch.
because the marks are meeting each other traveling opposite directions, it is always possible to line them straight. Due to the stretch though, the valve timing was actually off---

 

[rizzjc]

Hmmm, OK. Well, I've never claimed to be a car guy. I'll just be happy when this thing is back together, and hopefully I won't have anything to worry about for a while. If I get some h.p. back for all of this, then icing on the cake! Thanks for the help. I hope it's smooth sailing from here out.

 

[rizzjc]

I have a request--
When you put it all back together--and the timing marks are still in line. Check the timing mark on your harmonic balancer. Mine was 6 degrees off after 102k miles. Due to the 3 piece design, it can slip. This will mess the ignition timing, as it is triggered by the tone ring on the dampener--

Hmm, never thought about that. That would suck, 'cause that thing is HIGH DOLLAR, and I ain't replacing it! I'll look though. Maybe I'm lucky for a change. Not likely, but maybe.