Torsion bar pads??

[Lazzman]

After countless hours of diagnostics and replacing:

Ball Joints U/L
Control Arms U/L
Shocks
Stabilizer bar bushings and ends

My Sport is still making a clicking noise going over minor bumps that can be felt to a minor degree in the steering wheel. Had the Tie rod ends checked out by my mechanic and he said they were tight.

I am reallly thinking it is the Torsion bars, the pads must be worn out. I have not pulled the covers yet to inspect them but was wondering what the symptoms of torsion bar problems are and what a torsion bar does in the first place?? My truck has 127k on it at the present time.

If it is the torsion bars how difficult is it to replace the pads?? How do I know if it is the front or rears?

Thanks for any help....

 

[exploded99]

The torsion bar acts as the spring for the front suspension. When you go over a bump, the wheel is raised up in the wheelwhell, and the lower control arm, which is attached to the front of the torsion bar, rises with the wheel and twists the torsion bar (twist=torsion).

The symptom of pads being worn out in my x was clicking over bumps. You can pull the covers, spray the rear mounts/pads with lots of wd 40 and see if the noise changes or goes away for awile.
There are no front pads - they slide into the control arm.

Each torsion bar is holding up about 1000 pounds of truck, so there is a lot of tension on them.

the only tricky part of replacing pads is when you remove the rear mounts. First, you back out the torsion bar adjusting screws.
You need a large gear puller which you put on the tranny crossmember. The end of the gear puller goes into a slot in the torsion bar adjuster. Use the gear puller to lift the torsion bar adjuster up off of the adjuster bolt and crossmember nut, then finish pulling out the bolt and nut. Then back the gear puller off till all tension is off the torsion bar, it will all come out.

You need to watch it when you have tension on the gear puller cause if that thing slips, the tension on it from the torsion bar will send things flying.

ALWAYS use new adjusting bolts. They are coated with a special dry adhesive to keep them from moving. They are used to set your front ride height, which affects alignment.

I have seen a few x's that seem to have problems with torsion bars losing tension. If thats the case, you end up doing torsion bars as well. Most times however, you just do pads.

 

[Lazzman]

Thanks for the helpful info exploded

 

[BuffaloXplorer]

instead of using a gear puller, you can just unbolt the shock and the upper BJ which will release the tension.

I just did this on my 96 and it worked fine. The puller would have been handy for the installation of the new (or in your case reinstalling your existing) adjusters - but i managed without one.

 

[BuffaloXplorer]

BTW - when you replace the pads, if at all possible, let me know how much the pads themselves are and get a pic to post here (or email to me) I'm trying to figure out just how hard it would be for us early 2nd gens to replace the pad ON THE ADJUSTER as opposed to replacing the whole adjuster (@ $30/each)

 

[Lazzman]

Almost forgot- the symptoms of the noise are much more prominent during hot or warm weather. In the winter months on days below 25 F sound was gone, above 50f sounds is good, the warmer it gets the more prominent the noise.

Also after installing the new shocks, sway bar bushings and end links it was a lot less noticeable for about two weeks. Now I am back to square one.

When I took off the Covers to the torsion bars they were laden with sand especially on the inside botom of the cover. It was a pain because the cover has to be put back so that all four holes line up exactly or it won't go.

If I do the work I will post pics and prices. Only thing I am leary of is getting the height right?? I looked at the pads or what I thought were the pads and they were a lite greenish blue. Did not seem to be any play in the torsion bar at all, will see if the wd-40 worked.

 

[CDW6212R]

... I'm trying to figure out just how hard it would be for us early 2nd gens to replace the pad ON THE ADJUSTER as opposed to replacing the whole adjuster (@ $30/each)

I did take a couple of pictures of my 99, with the cover off. The later adjuster sets steel/steel against a metal plate, with a slot in it. That metal pad is probably the "isolator." The top of the plate is covered with the rubber, plastic, etc. With the parts assembled, you cannot see the frame itself, which that isolator is mated up against.

I would bet that you could whittle away some of the older 95-97 frame where it extends down for the older adjuster. The trick would be to simply get that newer isolator to set flush up against the frame. You need to compare what your 95-97 frame looks like there, and the later isolator. Keep us informed,

 

[exploded99]

Lazz, what I meant with the wd 40 is if the noise goes away or changes significantly, you have found what is making the noise. The wd 40 will go away quickly, and the click will return.

Then you gotta do the pad.

The ride height adjustment is easy - its done with the torsion bar adjuster bolts.

If you decide to do the job yourself, details can be posted.

 

[Lloyd10977]

Does anyone happen to have access to a supply of DELRIN? Could that be used as a replacement for the KEVLAR pads? If so, that could work as a replacement in second gen as well as third gen (improved) models of the torsion adjusters.

 

[CDW6212R]

Delrin is great stuff, but it wouldn't last any better than the kevlar. The problem is that too much pressure is being concentrated in one small spot. The 98-01 models have a much much larger surface(flat), which is evenly spreading the pressure of the adjuster.

The material in those later 98-01's might not be as good as delrin, but the design is much better.

Global West was one of the first to use delrin, in suspension parts. I have some 73 Ranchero control arms with delrin as bushings. Regards,

 

[BuffaloXplorer]

I don't think it's so much the length of time before you have to redo the adjusters as it is the cost involved in replacing the whole thing. My adjusters (the metal itself) are in perfect shape and could be easily sanded, primed, painted and re-padded with a $5 (?) 1"x2" kevlar/delrin pad? Sure beats the hell out of a $64 set from FPN.

I looked up Kevlar and could not find a place that would sell it in sheets. However, i was able to find Delrin for about $25 for a 12"x24" sheet of 1/8" thick. I may buy it when i get back from vacation and see what i can do with it.

 

[CDW6212R]

Delrin is a strong plastic... it may do the job well... if there is no real movement of the adjuster pad. Good thought for a cheap alternative, worth the effort. Give it try when you get time. Regards,

 

[Lazzman]

Well I did the job with the WD-40 and the sound is gone completely so I guess I have isolated the problem, now I have to think if I should do this job myself or have my mechanic do it. I am a newbie to really working on my car successfully.

I have been fixing my own cars for 15 years but I never really got it right until recently when I started working on my X. I recently put in new shocks all around, dumped the antifreeze and flushed and intalled upgraded sway bar bushings and end links.

Don't know how hard it would be for the pads... My truck is older and the bolts must be really bad.

 

[BuffaloXplorer]

PB Blaster baby! I'm in the same boat as you (regarding experience) and i managed to replace my adjusters with simple hand tools - (i actually had to use a rotozip w/grinder disc to remove one of the bolts from the protector plate)

For the week leading up to the repair, spray the bolts down daily with PB Blaster. As i mentioned above, i didn't use a puller and i managed just fine - short of the grinding of the bolt, it took me 1.5 hours to do.

The job may have been easier with the puller, but using the OEM jack and one jackstand i did it all by my lonesome. I undid the upper balljoint & shock from the side i was working on (which released the tension, much like the puller would) and went to work. It was probably one of the easier repairs i've ever done on the X

 

[Lloyd10977]

Delrin is great stuff, but it wouldn't last any better than the kevlar. The problem is that too much pressure is being concentrated in one small spot. The 98-01 models have a much much larger surface(flat),

My point is that the Delrin does not have to necessarily be BETTER than Kevlar. Half as good would be a major benefit because, as I see it, cutting a piece from a 12" x 24" sheet that cost $25, and changing both pads once a year would allow me 10 years of service for that $25 as opposed to buying two $32 adjusters every 2 years for a 2nd gen X ($64x5=$320). Cost effective? My calculator says that it is.

I don't have a 3rd gen X (98-01) so the advantages of the improved design are lost on me unless someone comes up with a way to modify the older design. Untill then, I guess I'll try to work with what I have.

 

[CDW6212R]

You guys have come up with a better second choice, beyond stock or later model. Congrats on that.

The 2nd gen Explorer is from 95-01, many improvements were made in the 97, 98, and 99 years. Most everything swaps among a generation. Virtually nothing from the 3rd gen will work in older Explorers. Seats will swap, other that that not much. I have discovered that the 2001+ Sport and Sport Trac are still 2nd gen. chassis'. The improved brakes can be adapted, etc.

That repair is very possible for anyone, but the risk of using a two jawed puller made/makes me avoid that route. I chose to unbolt my front upper balljoints to do mine last year. Unless you are in a high corrosion area, I'd suggest working on the balljoints to see if they will come loose readily.

Spray the bolts and the ball joint with spray penetrant to help loosen them. Support the frame on jack stands, and the lower control arm by a hydraulic jack. Remove the torsion bar adjuster bolt, and unbolt the shock. For ease, I'd unbolt one end of the Anti-sway bar end links.

Remove the upper balljoint bolt, reduce the pressure from under the control arm, and work on getting the ball joint up and out of the spindle. Lower the suspension as far as it will go. With the tension removed from the torsion bar, the job is almost halfway over. Remove the adjusting block(bolt goes through it), the adjusting arm(with kevlar patch). The hard part is getting the new arm and adjusting block back in. Take your time, it will go with some effort. Reassemble. Good luck,

 

[Lazzman]

I thought 98+ explorers did not have the pads in the front just the rear. I live in a way high corrosive area and it seams on of the actual bolts on the rear torsion bar is rusted beyond its shape. I have a nice Sawzall that will zip it off quick but I dont know anything about installing or adjusting the height. Going to my mechanic tommorow to see what he will charge.

 

[CDW6212R]

The torsion bar is twisted from the front(control arm), and the rear adjustment arm. The adjustment bolt pushes on the adjustment arm. It is a fine tuning of the tension. By lowering the control arms(disconnected), you release most of the twist in the torsion bar.

The covers in the rear are not structural parts. There are four bolts holding those covers on. Remove them if you can, then you will better be able to see how the system works. Good luck,

 

[BuffaloXplorer]

there are NO pads in the front, just the rear.

Ultimately, its the suspension - If you don't feel confident that you can do it yourself, have someone else do it.

We're just trying to save you a few bucks.

Good luck

 

[Lazzman]

I would love to save a few bucks- but I don't want to be the one that is embarassed when he can't finish the job and has to have the truck towed to the mechanic. It has happened to me before