Ford buy back converstation

[blwnsmoke]

@dstewart51

Start the Lemon Law procedure - you got a Lemon...

he cant for 30 days.

Don't know the issue? Can't find the fault? You probably will not even qualify for a Lemon Law. They have to make like 3 repair attempts for you to even start a Lemon Law.

30 days out of service within 18mon or 18k in CA or 4 repair attempts.

 

[dstewart51]

Don't know the issue? Can't find the fault? You probably will not even qualify for a Lemon Law. They have to make like 3 repair attempts for you to even start a Lemon Law.

This is the third repair attempt. The dealer can duplicate the issue, made two previous attempts to repair. We may hit the 30 day mark at this point.

 

[fast_dave]

I don't think its a major issue, its just they don't know what the issue is and I have no confidence at this point they will fix it. If they don't know how to fix it, that should not be my problem, they have had three chances and plenty of time. Give me one that works.

@dstewart51

Looking at the big picture - I'm completely blown away that you are an early adopter that paid top dollar - nearly $60,000 - for a new generation Explorer, and the Dealer couldn't even work it out with the West Coast FORD Rep. to take another new generation Explorer off of the dealers lot (as a loaner) while they try and "figure all this out". What the heck - this is a no-brainer; FORD could have compensated the dealer for your use of the loaner Explorer.

All they could come up with was to send you to Enterprise, and put you in a $35 a day smelly econobox.
Damn, that's the best the Dealer that took your 60K and FORD could do?!

In my mind, given that this is the "start" of the new generation Explorer off of the assembly lines, FORD would have wanted to use your Ex as a "learning tool" I.E. wanting to nip this in the bud and QUICKLY want to figure out what went wrong either in design OR the assembly line & how to "fix it" so that it doesn't happen again....

Bottom Line - Lemon Law it.
The PRK provides this service for the TAX you paid on the $60,000 purchase price.

You already are witnessing how your Dealer and the West Coast Ford Rep. are "in your corner."

Link to CA Lemon Law: https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf

 

[blwnsmoke]

@dstewart51

Looking at the big picture - I'm completely blown away that you are an early adopter that paid top dollar - nearly $60,000 - for a new generation Explorer, and the Dealer couldn't even work it out with the West Coast FORD Rep. to take another new generation Explorer off of the dealers lot (as a loaner) while they try and "figure all this out". What the heck - this is a no-brainer; FORD could have compensated the dealer for your use of the loaner Explorer.

All they could come up with was to send you to Enterprise, and put you in a $35 a day smelly econobox.
Damn, that's the best the Dealer that took your 60K and FORD could do?!

In my mind, given that this is the "start" of the new generation Explorer off of the assembly lines, FORD would have wanted to use your Ex as a "learning tool" I.E. wanting to nip this in the bud and QUICKLY want to figure out what went wrong either in design OR the assembly line & how to "fix it" so that it doesn't happen again....

Bottom Line - Lemon Law it.
The PRK provides this service for the TAX you paid on the $60,000 purchase price.

You already are witnessing how your Dealer and the West Coast Ford Rep. are "in your corner."

Link to CA Lemon Law: https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf

The guy is going through a ****ty situation and I'd be just as mad/frustrated over it.

With that said, there is no way in hell Ford is going to offer a 6th gen Explorer as a loaner. Dealers have been waiting months for their stock to come in and nobody is going to give one up. On top of that, the dealer isnt responsible for loaners nor is Ford unless there is an ESP. Any type of loaner is more than they needed to do. Some dealers have their own fleet of rentals.. if not, it goes to Enterprise as Ford's #1 rental center.

So far this is a one off issue. Ford could be more flexible with the dealer and authorize them to replace parts now (granted who knows what is available).

And again, he can not lemon law it until 4 attempts or 30 days as posted several times now in here.

I personally would not lemon law it being just an AC issue. If we were talking engine or trans being torn apart several times, absolutely.. but IMO no reason to give up a perfectly good vehicle, wait for another new build and start the process all over again over an AC issue. I'd rather fight for a 8yr/150k premium ESP (about $4,000) for free and maybe a payment or two.. worth far more to me.

 

[SBK_]

Sorry to see you have to go through this on a brand new vehicle. Very frustrating for sure.

That said, it doesn't happen to Ford only. I bought a first/new generation of Toyota Sienna (2011) ... oh boy ... there were so many issues (powered sliding doors not working, strange loud noise when braking going downhill ...), all of which Toyota service department said they couldn't reproduce.

 

[buzzard302]

@dstewart51

Looking at the big picture - I'm completely blown away that you are an early adopter that paid top dollar - nearly $60,000 - for a new generation Explorer, and the Dealer couldn't even work it out with the West Coast FORD Rep. to take another new generation Explorer off of the dealers lot (as a loaner) while they try and "figure all this out". What the heck - this is a no-brainer; FORD could have compensated the dealer for your use of the loaner Explorer.

All they could come up with was to send you to Enterprise, and put you in a $35 a day smelly econobox.
Damn, that's the best the Dealer that took your 60K and FORD could do?!

In my mind, given that this is the "start" of the new generation Explorer off of the assembly lines, FORD would have wanted to use your Ex as a "learning tool" I.E. wanting to nip this in the bud and QUICKLY want to figure out what went wrong either in design OR the assembly line & how to "fix it" so that it doesn't happen again....

Bottom Line - Lemon Law it.
The PRK provides this service for the TAX you paid on the $60,000 purchase price.

You already are witnessing how your Dealer and the West Coast Ford Rep. are "in your corner."

Link to CA Lemon Law: https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf

I used to work at a Bentley dealership. At that time, there were no loaner cars available either. The customers that got upset would get an Enterprise rental car. Even with $200k cars, they were cheap about things.

I would give Ford the opportunity to fix it, even if it takes a lot of tries. The dealership is certainly communicating with Ford engineering to figure out how to fix it. The local rep is absolutely aware of lemon law situations and they will try their best to resolve it before it gets to that point. At least that's my experience working at a dealership, albeit a different brand obviously.

 

[dstewart51]

We will see what they say tomorrow. Good points from many, I would hate to be stuck waiting for a few months for a replacement that may have its own set of issues. I just hope what ever the issue is can be correctly identified.

My frustration with the rental is not with Ford, but with the fact the crappy smelly Fiesta was the only Ford available. Only had the Fiesta for a day, been driving a 2020 Ranger since and its okay.

 

[Hoos1990]

Don't know the issue? Can't find the fault? You probably will not even qualify for a Lemon Law. They have to make like 3 repair attempts for you to even start a Lemon Law.

It's a problem, they have acknowledged it, just cannot fix it. Lemon laws generally state either a time period where the car is I. The shop (30 days) or a number of attempts (3). So whether they have attempted to fix it or not is irrelevant, what's relevant is that they acknowledge the problem.

 

[blwnsmoke]

It's a problem, they have acknowledged it, just cannot fix it. Lemon laws generally state either a time period where the car is I. The shop (30 days) or a number of attempts (3). So whether they have attempted to fix it or not is irrelevant, what's relevant is that they acknowledge the problem.

I swear you just contradicted yourself.

"Or a number of attempts (3)." And "So whether they attempted to fix it or not is irrelevant".

It is 4 attempts.. but how is it irrelevant IF the attempts are part of the lemon law?

I know I am tired.. but sheesh..

 

[Hoos1990]

Yes, if they "attempt to fix" or not is irrelevant. Meaning they may not be able to ever diagnose therefore never "attempt a fix". In that case the 30 day rule kicks in whether they have tried to fix it or just sat there scratching there head. If they did not have this rule a dealer could just indefinitely diagnose, never attempt a repair, and just keep stalling.

Many states are 3 attempts. Some 4. Some have altogether different rules with no specific number. But it's a state thing so I didn't see where the OP is from. Perhaps it's 4 there.

 

[RayoVac]

This is why you NEVER buy a brand new model/redesign when it comes out. I generally wait until a model has been out 2 years and let them work out the bugs.

2 years??? LOL the next model will end up being out at that point. With the state of production technology and automation in this day and age, Quality Control and Engineering are going to change very little the second or third year of a model redesign. Sure there is always the chance for gross negligence but heck even the 6.0 disaster lasted for near 5 years of production.

Fact is the few we see complain are a slim minority in the total production count... and easily not as big an epidemic problem as the internet would like you to believe. I have bought many first year models and have been driving new Fords for over 35 years. Have yet to experience what I would attribute to "I should have waited for them to work the bugs out". They just don't trial and error like that any more with the state of computer modeling and testing abilities. Lastly with sooo many parts outsourced, you stand just as much of a chance of running into a bad production run from vendor x in the second or third year, as you would the first year. It's all luck of the draw.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Yes, if they "attempt to fix" or not is irrelevant. Meaning they may not be able to ever diagnose therefore never "attempt a fix". In that case the 30 day rule kicks in whether they have tried to fix it or just sat there scratching there head. If they did not have this rule a dealer could just indefinitely diagnose, never attempt a repair, and just keep stalling.

Many states are 3 attempts. Some 4. Some have altogether different rules with no specific number. But it's a state thing so I didn't see where the OP is from. Perhaps it's 4 there.

It totally is relevant. If I bring my vehicle in and I get it back the next day as "cant duplicate problem", I bring it back 3 days later for same issue with same result, that is twice already. The attempts to fix does not have to be true attempts (diagnosing it). Plenty of LL cases where an intermittent problem can never be duplicated. Video evidence is all that is needed to show the problem regardless of what the dealer can or cant duplicate.

That is why it is an either/or option and both are equally important.

 

[NJDave]

Don't know the issue? Can't find the fault? You probably will not even qualify for a Lemon Law. They have to make like 3 repair attempts for you to even start a Lemon Law.

He said this is the 3rd time its been in....

 

[cwescapexlt4x4]

Well I would certainly go Lemon Law on this and let Ford have it back. Now as to getting a replacement, that could be an issue and wonder how long (if at all) after the LL settlement if Ford would continue to pay for the rental until your replacement is "found".

 

[dstewart51]

Got an overnight letter today confirming the RAV offer to buy back or replacement. Still not sure what "RAV" means, but when they call Ill see if they can find me an exact replacement, time frame, and what all is involved.

Stopped by the Ford Dealership this morning as well, they are still not able to diagnose the issue.

 

[buzzard302]

RAV is apparently their reacquired vehicle department. If they can't fix it at the dealer, it means the factory has no solution to offer your dealer. Incredibly hard to believe. Has the local rep contacted you?

 

[dstewart51]

Yes, talked to the local rep a few times. The service department just called, they have the Ford Engineers on the phone now.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Got an overnight letter today confirming the RAV offer to buy back or replacement. Still not sure what "RAV" means, but when they call Ill see if they can find me an exact replacement, time frame, and what all is involved.

Stopped by the Ford Dealership this morning as well, they are still not able to diagnose the issue.

It is to avoid it being branded a lemon. They will buy it back voluntarily bypassing the lemon law so it can be fixed and sold in the future.

 

[fast_dave]

It is to avoid it being branded a lemon. They will buy it back voluntarily bypassing the lemon law so it can be fixed and sold in the future.

'Zactly!

And just sayin' - It won't be branded a LEMON because case wasn't initiated and thus the CA DMV won't be notified, BUT Auto Check &/OR Car Fax will pick it up as a Dealer/Manufacture Buyback if you have a lease or lien on it.

The reason for this is the buyer's lease or lien will have to be re-initiated on a new Vehicle/Vin - thus the "alert flag" going up the flag pole.
A reason for this lease/lien re-assignment will have to be entered into the credit database so that @dstewart51 credit isn't dinged.

Auto Check is very good at picking up "buybacks" because they are owned by Experian - one of the big 3 credit reporting agencies.
That's one of the reasons they're my fist choice when looking at used vehicles.

 

[Michael Lopour]

It is to avoid it being branded a lemon. They will buy it back voluntarily bypassing the lemon law so it can be fixed and sold in the future.

This is exactly right. Audi did this with a vehicle of mine several years ago. I threatened to lemon the vehicle and they bought it back and sold me a new vehicle. Title will show buyback but it will NOT be a salvage title.