Engine swap 98 sohc

[2000StreetRod]

Motor mount nuts

Why did you need to replace the motor mount nuts? Were they rusty?

I paid Ford $4.50 each for four new exhaust manifold to downpipe bolts. I couldn't find an equivalent locally.

In my opinion either the Mustang or the Explorer plugs should work fine as long as they are the same heat range. If they are different heat ranges then I would use the Explorer plugs since the engine loading will be different. The longer Mustang plugs will result in a slightly higher compression ratio and possibly better flame travel due to the longer length.

You've done a fine job transforming the Mustang engine. I wish you success this weekend!

 

[rydrew55]

Spark plugs

Mr2fix2it and stangsteeda,
Which plugs did you use.
Please see my previous post.
Thanks

 

[rydrew55]

Motor mount nuts

Why did you need to replace the motor mount nuts? Were they rusty?

I paid Ford $4.50 each for four new exhaust manifold to downpipe bolts. I couldn't find an equivalent locally.

Rusted and rounded. I broke a ratchet getting them off. The mount studs were ok, I just chased the threads.
Thanks

 

[ranger7ltr]

I want to wish you great luck this weekend!!!

And I sincerely hope this storm will not affect you while you are working on your truck...

I am sure you are eagerly waiting for the first light off of the new engine; I have done thousands of engines in my time and I still get excited at the first time a new engine roars to life...

From the looks of it you have ironed out all the big obstacles...Again I am wishing you a smooth install and quick resolution...

 

[rydrew55]

Spark Plugs differnt left and right banks

. The spark plugs are different length. The Mustang ones are about 3/8" longer from the seat to the electrode. The explorer plugs will not go as deep in the combustion chamber. Do you think that is a problem? Pics below.

WOW...More confusion and some research.

First, the Mustang plugs are call extended tip which puts the spark closer to the center of the chamber. The thread reach is the same, so no threads go into the chamber, only the extended barrel. Still not sure if it's smarter to use the ex or stang type. Need to look at the specs. Anyone know where to find them?

Also, upon closer look, I noticed that on both engines, they use different plugs on each side.

Explorer, passenger side - AGRF22PG
Explorer, drivers side - AGRF22P
New listing on Ford site SP-400 all 6

Mustang, passenger side - AGSF24PGM
Mustang, drivers side - AGSF24PM
New listing on ford site SP-498

I found tons of Mustang and Ranger sites explaining it.
Funny nobody noticed on the explorer or maybe I didn't search enough.
Here's one but they all were the same.

heh, found the answer on a Ranger forum of all places. Apparently the EDIS ignition system fires the two banks of plugs in series two at a time and in opposite polarity, one side positive and the other negative (one cylinder is on its compression stroke while the other is on its exhaust stroke). Initially to save money, Ford used plugs with only one electrode made of platinum. This required two genders of plugs, one type with the center electrode platinum and the other with the side electrode platinum. Replacement plugs are now made with both electrodes platinum to avoid confusion with mechanics (double platinum plugs).

 

[rydrew55]

Spark Plugs More confusion

WOW...More confusion and some research.

First, the Mustang plugs are call extended tip which puts the spark closer to the center of the chamber. The thread reach is the same, so no threads go into the chamber, only the extended barrel. Still not sure if it's smarter to use the ex or stang type. Need to look at the specs. Anyone know where to find them?

Also, upon closer look, I noticed that on both engines, they use different plugs on each side.

Explorer, passenger side - AGRF22PG
Explorer, drivers side - AGRF22P
New listing on Ford site SP-400 all 6

Mustang, passenger side - AGSF24PGM
Mustang, drivers side - AGSF24PM
New listing on ford site SP-498

I found tons of Mustang and Ranger sites explaining it.
Funny nobody noticed on the explorer or maybe I didn't search enough.
Here's one but they all were the same.

heh, found the answer on a Ranger forum of all places. Apparently the EDIS ignition system fires the two banks of plugs in series two at a time and in opposite polarity, one side positive and the other negative (one cylinder is on its compression stroke while the other is on its exhaust stroke). Initially to save money, Ford used plugs with only one electrode made of platinum. This required two genders of plugs, one type with the center electrode platinum and the other with the side electrode platinum. Replacement plugs are now made with both electrodes platinum to avoid confusion with mechanics (double platinum plugs).

OK, now I want to drink......

The ford site shows the single sp400 as the new plug replacing both the AGRF22P and PG
But I could find no specs.
So I went to Autolite and they had a real nice site.

When I crossed the sp400, it showed:
AP103
Application showed the Explorer
Copper Core, Platinum
.708 reach
tapered seat
power tip
Cold Heat Range

Then I entered 1998 Explorer. It came back with:
APP103
Same specs as AP103 except:
Double Platinum, Nickel Plated Shell

OK, now I checked the Mustang.
AP5143
Same specs as the AP103
Except with an extended gap (same thread reach but longer barrel at end).

I am so confused, but it probably won't make much difference.

Any suggestions before I flip my 3 sided coin?????

 

[mr2fix2it]

I use the correct plugs for the Explorer the heat range is different then the mustang other wise the plug dimensions are all the same but the explorer is a bit hotter for the explorer calibration.

 

[rydrew55]

Plugs

I use the correct plugs for the Explorer the heat range is different then the mustang other wise the plug dimensions are all the same but the explorer is a bit hotter for the explorer calibration.

Yeah, I'm thinking I'll do the same.
There is still the question, double platinum or copper / platinum. I think the motorcrafts are copper/ platinums.
What brand/type did you use. You seem pretty happy with how yours runs.

 

[rydrew55]

plugs and stuff

Decided on Autolite APP103 Double Platinums with Nickel Plated Shell (or equivilent depending on what they have in stock / on sale). I will stop at the parts store on my way home and exchange the cheaper single platinum Champions I purchased.

Also need to exchange the 10w30 they gave me for 5w30 which I think is the recommended oil.

Got the wire harness back. Looks nice with new lug and terminals. Should prevent power/ground resistance issues that happen regularly (on all cars). Maybe my mistake of breaking the lug was a blessing in disguise.

Finally, will pick up the starter bolt on my way home at Ford.

Should be good to go.

 

[rydrew55]

The Ex now has a Mustang Motor

What a relief. A very tough job equalled only by the excitement of the engine sliding onto the transmission when it was all said and done. PICs below show the Mustang motor in it's new home.

I made a few rookie mistakes so it took about 6 hours. 3 hours to get it in place, and another 3 to stake it.

First, I had to remove all the sparkplugs. I forgot that you need to relieve the compression to turn the motor.

Then I had the engine in place but did not put the starter and battery harness in. It doesn't fit. So I had to lift the motor back up a few inches, thread the harness, and attach the starter. All on my back, in between the jack stands, crane legs and jack holding up the transmission. My hands were shaking from fatigue.

The crane is so big that I had to support the trans with a pipe and rope, remove 1 jackstand, position the crane, and replace the jackstand.

I had that puppy within a few millimeters.....3 hours later I got it staked. Problem was the motor was rotated about 20 degrees counter clockwise on the crank axis, and the chain/hook was also not straight so the engine twisted on the crane axis. Also I noticed that the motor was too low in the front, so I attached a ratcheting type cable to the front of the motor, and to the crane hook. I was able to tilt it back a bit using this method. But it was still not perfect. With the allignment off on 3 different axis, it just would not go.

I tugged, pulled, twisted, lifted, lowered, kicked and screamed. My son and I had just about had enough and decided to quit. Then I said, let me try one more thing.

I was able to get one of the lower motor bolts in. Then by lowering the motor a tiny bit, and rotating the motor by hand, It pivoted so I could get the other lower bolt in. All of a sudded, it looked right and everything was square. However, there was pressure on the bolts, so nothing would slide. By alternating lowering the trans and and the motor a little bit at a time, the pressure was relieved. I spun the crank a few degrees and the torque converter studs "popped" right through "and the bellhousing bushing followed right in. ELATION and a rare chest pump with my son!!!!!!!

Time to quit for the day. With a little luck, I'll get everything bolted on tomorrow and maybe even turn the key.

I do have 1 question. I need the nut that holds the neg cable on the lower starter mounting stud. I can't find a brass one, only stainless steel or a regular steel one. Which one would be a better conductor?

Thanks

 

[ranger7ltr]

Yee ha!!! Sounds like it's beer 30...

I fought with mine for a couple of hours with my better half actually helping me... I just couldn't get the shortblock to line up with the torque convertor during that 2 hrs...She finally got pissed with me and left for the cooler parts of the house...I looked at what I had and raised the tranny a bit and lowered and moved the crane back a bit and it lined up like it had eyes...

Congrats man...I feel your pain...And I feel the elation of getting that unit to line up and drop into place...

On the nut I would probably use either one; they both will conduct about the same...The stainless one would be more corrosion resistant though...

 

[2000StreetRod]

Nice going!

I agree with ranger7ltr that the stainless steel nut will not rust as quickly.

Did you fill the Mustang block with engine coolant before installing the thermostat? You don't want to overheat your new engine because the water pump is only pumping air.

If you prefill the oil filter it will reduce the engine dry start (no oil pressure) time.

 

[rydrew55]

Thanks for the encouragement guys, It's nice to hear the feedback.
Dale, No I did not put any water in yet.
When should I do that, after the hoses and radiator I thought. Is there a better way to do it?

 

[2000StreetRod]

filling the block with coolant

I believe I installed the radiator and connected the lower hoses. Then I removed the thermostat and filled the block to a level just below where the thermostat seats. Removing the thermostat allows the air in the block to escape and be replaced by coolant. Since the thermostat is above the water pump, the pump will also fill with coolant.

Make sure that you connect up all of the vacuum lines. I posted a list of them a few months ago. I'll try and find it.

Good luck with your engine start!

 

[2000StreetRod]

SOHC V6 Vacuum lines

V6 vacuum lines

 

[ranger7ltr]

Are you using a thermostat with a jiggle valve?

I agree with ranger7ltr that the stainless steel nut will not rust as quickly.

Did you fill the Mustang block with engine coolant before installing the thermostat? You don't want to overheat your new engine because the water pump is only pumping air.

If you prefill the oil filter it will reduce the engine dry start (no oil pressure) time.

The thermostat I always use has the jiggle valve[ or loose ball with hole] that I mount with the jiggle valve at the top of the thermostat opening...That way I fill the system with coolant, fill the overflow with coolant, and run the engine until warm then shut it down and let the overflow system displace the air in the engine block and the coolant from the overflow corrects the fill level and then I refill if needed...

There is always some air in the cooling system on a new install...The overflow system, assuming the cooling system is sealed and the overflow bottle has coolant in it, and natural convection will displace the air with coolant as the engine cools off and keep the level inside the engine constant...

And if you couldn't find a thermostat with a jiggle valve I would recommend drilling a small hole in the mounting face of the thermostat you did find...Performs the same task as the jiggle valve and allows coolant to flow around it to gravity fill the block after you fill it with coolant...

And filling the oil filter before installing it is always a good idea...That does minimize the time for oil to flow throughout the galleries to start lubing the internals of the engine and lessens the amount of air that initially goes through the engine as oil flow starts...

 

[rydrew55]

moto mounts won't line up

Crap. The motor mount won't line up with the bracket. The 2 holes are 1/8" off and I can't move the motor back because it's staked to the trans.

Big time stuck. Any suggestions?

 

[rydrew55]

Got it

Crap. The motor mount won't line up with the bracket. The 2 holes are 1/8" off and I can't move the motor back because it's staked to the trans.

Big time stuck. Any suggestions?

Got it. Loosened the tran cross member bolts and raised the back 1/2". That lowered the front and made it parallel. Popped right in.

 

[rydrew55]

Messed up.

Well, things were just going too easy. That's usually where I get overconfident and break the golden rule....Measure twice, cut once. I am embarassed to say, I made a real bone head mistake. I was soooooooo close.

As I was torquing the torque converter nuts I said to my son:

"I wonder why I have so much room to get at these nuts. Does this motor have more clearance in the starter hole?"

Can you all guess????????

Yup, my stomach got woozy and my head fell into my hands. I realized that I forgot to put in that plate between the engine and the Tranny.

I took a break to think about it and decided that what's done is done and I can only make the best of it.

I have 2 or 3 options as I see it;

1. Pull the engine (partially) right now and reassemble. Take my lumps and go on. It's a lot of backward progress and I am not thrilled about it.

2. Finish up, make sure it runs OK and then:

A. Remove the starter and TC nuts and pull the transmission back to install the plate.

B. Unbolt the exhaust and motor mounts, loosen but don't remove the engine to tranny bolts, pull it apart just enough to dissengage the bushing, remove and replace a couple bolts at a time while sliding the plate in, stake it back. (I could also try this now like in option 1)

Unless someone thinks 1 is best, I have pretty much decided on 2A or 2B. Option 1 will take less time overall, but I won't know it runs and that will add several hours which I would hate to invest if there turns out to be an engine or transmission problem. Remember, I have no 1st hand knowledge of either's true condition. In option 2, I am not too far from starting and verifying that I have a good engine and transmission before investing additional time.

Either way, I plan take most of tomorrow off. I'm pretty tired and fatigued. But I also have a real stubborn personality, and have been known to just plow on even when tired. I guess I'll see how I feel in the morning.

Thanks (and please don't laugh too hard...well OK it's alright, I deserve it)

 

[janolsson]

Dude, that sucks
2B not an option
Whilst things not all connected at the front i would say easiest route would be to lift the motor out a fraction.

Before you put the dirtplate in take a chisel or sharp screwdriver and stake the edges of the 2 holes that go over the locating dowels. this will close them enough to grab the dowels so the plate won't keep falling off when trying to line up the motor and tranny.

Sometimes you can get it to line up in 10 mins and sometimes as you found it can take a couple of hours.
The last time it took me a couple of hours but the time before that about 3 mins, go figure.

Nearly there tho.
Heres to the last push
Regards