700R4 going into my Explorer and Shifter Questions

[BKennedy]

There have been problems with most of the rigs I have heard of doing this modification. I guess there are problems to be worked out with any major modification.

 

[Dignan]

The mechanic assured me it would be done over the weekend and when I called on Sunday he didn't return my calls, then on Monday I got ahold of his wife and she said he had been in the hospital, but "would be working on it on Tuesday". So, for those of you that were wondering, no, its not done. And who knows when it will be. :fire:

 

[Dignan]

Update: I got a voicemail from the mechanic today that said he left the Explorer at the muffler shop to get a new cadalytic converter and it would be $250. That was just the shop and had nothing to do with the bill he was going to give me. Well, I called him back and said that I didn't want to replace my cat. He said the old one wont fit, so I told him I would move it down the line a little bit or something. He was mad because he already took it to the shop (maybe he should have asked first). He said fine, it will be $500 you can pick it up tomorrow. I said $500? you said it was going to be $400. He had the audacity to tell me that he had quoted me $450, but after I argued that a little he said fine, I'll take $400 but you'll have to come get it tonight, or I'll have it delivered. I'm not sure if that was some kind of threat, he sounded mean like he was threatening, but delivering it seems like it would be helping me out. I don't know, it doesn't matter, I'll pick it up anyway. So, to make a long story short, I'm finally getting it back, but the wiring for the TC lockup isn't done and the exhaust isn't done.

It does upset me that he did not finish. Not so much the exhaust because that is a little more than the instructions mentioned, but he knew that the TC lockup should be part of the project, so to give me the vehicle back without that being done is stupid. I'm taking it anyway, because it has been so long, but it tempts me to say, you didn't finish the project as agreed so I will not pay you as agreed. I should get a quote from another mechanic for the tc lockup wiring, and deduct that from the $400.

 

[Maniak]

Make sure the TV cable is setup. If he didn't do the TC lockup, he may not have done the TV cable.

With a pressure gauge in the pressure port (drivers side of the transmission, up towards teh bell housing), you should be at about 85-100 psi at idle (once its slightly warm.. e.g. 5 mins or so of sitting there)..

The pressure should increase as soon as the gas is pressed. There should be practically no play in the TV cable.

If the TV cable has the pressure too low (or not hooked up) it will kill the transmission in a few miles. If the pressure is too high or the TV cable connection isn't right (it controlls the pressure curve) it will kill the transmission in short order.

You can look up pressure readings for the 700r4 on the 'net and I can dig mine up (I think).. But the important thing is to test the pressures.

Here is a quick and dirty set of tests.

You need to check idle pressure with the cable disconnected
Then check idle pressure with the TV cable pulled (not the throttle, just the TV cable)
Now connect the TV cable and check the idle again. It should be the same or mayby 2-5 psi(5 is max) more than when it wasn't connected.
Test the pressure as you step on the gas and make sure it goes up as soon as you hit the throttle (mine is actually reading 2psi higher with the cable connected)
You also want to make sure that the throttle is pulling the TV cable all the way out. I tested with the truck off. Open the throttle all the way (You should make sure that the gas pedal does open the throttle all the way) and make sure that you cant pull the TV cable any more. The throttle should have it pulled all the way.

If you can't find the pressures to watch for (or the transmission didn't come with numbers to check) I'll see what I can find.

Also, get the TC wire hooked up.. w/out it you won't go into lockup which will build lots of heat.

Oh yea, you might get a check engine light if you started with an a4ld. If so, you can either hook up the old solenoids to the harness (take them out of the old a4ld) or hook up a pair of 33 ohm resisters which will make the computer think the solenoids are still there.

~Mark

 

[Dignan]

Well I made it clear that I wanted to keep my warranty with Bowtie, so he said he went through their info that I gave him and adjusted the tv cable and checked the pressure. If you have those numbers (I will also look through the stuff from Bowtie, I think they have some #s), I would like to double check it myself, but I think this guy knows what he is doing, he is just slow, and that is starting to upset me. I'll have to look through some write ups from this board and the instructions I got with the kit and see if I can figure out how to do the lockup myself.

 

[Dignan]

Well I got it back last night. He didn't put in my front driveline (he apparently left it out so the muffler shop could do their thing), and didn't do the tc lockup. He didn't make it back to the muffler shop in time to stop them, so I guess I got a new catalytic converter. I didn't want to drive it too far, so I took it to the in-laws who live close to the mechanic. I like the way it shifts and I like my Hurst shifter. I will take some pictures and give a little better review when I get the few last things in order and can drive it more

 

[FROADER]

Just read this whole thread...

Hopefully it's not too much more of a hassle for you to get it completed. That really sucks that it took him 2.5 months to not finish the job. So did you get the new cat included in the $400 then?

 

[Dignan]

Ya, that is the one bright spot, it was included in the $400 since he didn't clear it with me. I guess I could pass emissions again if I was required to take it.

I guess that isn't the only bright spot. It is pretty much done. It drove beautifully for a couple of miles, and I dont doubt it would continue to do so, I just didnt want to go too far without the tc lockup. So, on the bright side, ya it took a long time, but $400 really isn't bad for labor for a 700R4 conversion. I just hope that he really left out the front drive line just because it was in the way for the exhaust shop and not because it didn't fit. As long as that goes in ok, and the switch for the tc isn't too bad to wire, I should be looking at a sweet setup and still plenty of time to break it in before our next Moab trip. The A4LD kept me out of the last trip, not to mention it put me in someone else's car the year before when it spewed ATF on the way to Top of the World, so it would be nice to go to Moab under my own power again. I haven't been able to use my Explorer down there since April of 2001. That's pretty sad for a guy that lives in Utah.

 

[Dignan]

I guess my signiture doesn't need to be:


:roll:


hmmm........what should I change it to? I wish it was :exporange but I haven't earned that yet. I guess while I was dealling with this mechanic it should have been I'm just glad it never got to the point of I guess I'll leave it for now since its not totally done and I couldn't find a smiley with crutches.

 

[410Fortune]

and so HOW do you like it?
$400 is a friggin steal for the work involved most places would charge you that in labor just to swap to a new A4LD.

I ALMOST went this route, but opted for the $6500 5.0L conversion instead hahahaha which has kept my truck out of Moab since 04 now...but not in 07!

 

[Dignan]

Well I didn't go far, so its hard to say exactly how much I liked it. I only drove it a couple of miles. The shifts were good and I like the shifter, although I didn't have a chance to use it in ratchet mode. I'll know more after I get that lockup wired. I've been looking through some other threads to figure it out, there is probably instructions in my papers from bowtie, but if someone that knows what they are doing wants to just tell me how, that might save me some time.

 

[Dignan]

Also, it seems that it didn't shift into 4th. I wasn't going very fast, but is there possibly something the mechanic forgot to do that would keep that from shifting?

 

[Maniak]

There isn't really anything that will keep it from going into 4th. Mine goes into lockup as soon as it goes into 4th.. which is about 45mph at very light throttle.

BTW.. I'd call bowtie to make sure he did call them, and that they have you on record.. You have to call them with the pressures to get the waranty.

I originally had the TC lockup for 4th gear only.. I have since replaced the connector and wired it so I can lock it up in 2nd or 3rd which helps on the long hill climbs. W/out it, I would drop out of 4th, and out of lockup on some hills which would heat up the fluid. Locking the converter in 3rd took care of the problem.

~Mark

 

[Dignan]

I think I would like to be able to lock it up in 2nd or 3rd as well. Does it still do it automatically in 4th? Does it lockup as soon as you shift into 4th? or does it wait a couple of seconds? I read Jefe's thread and I seem to remember that he didn't like how quickly it locked up.

 

[Maniak]

By default it locks up when it is in 4th gear AND when there is 12 applied to the transmission.

Normally you hook up the TC circuit so it gives 12v to the trans Except when you hit the brake. That means that it is ready to lockup, but once you hit 4th gear it immediatly locks the converter.

You can use a vacuume switch to keep 12V from going to the transmission when under a high vacuum load which would make it wait to go into lockup when you hard hard on the throttle.

I haven't done that yet.. I'm also looking for a way to just "delay" it a couple seconds, but I haven't come up with a circuit to do that.

~Mark

 

[Dignan]

I think in Jefe's thread someone suggested to have a relay that would allow the voltage to go to a capacitor that would take a couple of seconds to charge and then it would trigger another relay to send the power to the lockup. It sounds simple enough to work.

For now, I just want it to work, so that I can drive it. What is the quickest way to do that? Then I'll worry about changing it later.

 

[Maniak]

That was me that suggested that.. I just haven't tried to do that yet.. I'm already using a Cap and a few relays to make a 4 second delay for my transmission cooler fan. When the converter unlocks, it waits 4 seconds before it turns on the fan.....

I haven't tested doing something like that to keep the converter from locking becuase you can't easily know when the converter is in 4th gear. I haven't found a way to get a singal from that.. Once I can get that, using the cap will be the easy part.

The quick way to install it is to get the TC lockup plug that will handle locking it up in 4th and in 2nd/3rd. Just wire up the 4th gear lockup now, and you can always go back and add the wires for the 2nd/3rd gear later.. You will need a relay to convert the normally open 12v signal from the brake pedal to a normally closed style signal for the transmission. This will make it show 12V to the transmission all the time, until you hit the brakes.

There are diagrams on the 'net on how to do that, but it should have come with your bowtie instructions.

~Mark

 

[Dignan]

Oh, I didn't realize that was you, sorry.

Another question I have is about the pressure gauge. Should I just mount the one that bowtie gave me? or is there a better way?

 

[Jefe]

With the standard valve body I never had a problem with it locking up the TC too soon going into 4th. It was only when I went to the manual shift valve body that I have that problem.

And you shouldn't have a problem driving it around without the TC lockup wired up as long as you watch the temp, but with a trans cooler it shouldn't be a problem.

I also wouldn't worry about mounting the pressure gauge. Once you check to make sure the TV cable is setup right it is really not necessary.

 

[Maniak]

I've never seen the gauge bowtie has.

I hooked up a pressure gauge becuase I know a broken TV cable will kill the trans quickly, so I installed one to let me know if I loose the cable.

My TC does lockup almost immediatly when it goes into 4th. Its not "too soon" but it does make for a big jumps in rpms.. When I'm getting on the freeway I'd sometimes like it to stay out of lockup longer so I accelerate better (the vacuum switch would do that for me)..

Here is my pressure and temp gauge...