3800 M90 Build

Ok the cats out the bag!!im going supercharged .its a 3800 gm m90.i need lots of help as im a nos guy.for starters my list of mods is in my signature.the guy im buying it from ran it on a stock tuned motor at 3psi.first question is what is the "safe" limit to run boost at?i know it is not ideal but i have a wide band O2 and will be doing tuning very soon.i also will be trying to have my company make a new lower intake mounting bracket on the cnc machine and have it taped for nos/water meth injectors/spray bars.i will also be getting a p+p unit from 3800 performance and stepping down on the pulley to try and run 8-10psi.what size injectors should i run for that?which fuel pump should i run?any suggestions on tuning?i was going to go mega squirt but i see sct has a new chip out,any suggestions?


DONE
ported and polished gm 3800 gen 2 m90
Water to air intercooled
port matched 76mm inlet and intake tube
mustang 75mm race tb
90mm maf
36lb injectors
255 fuel pump
sct 5bank dyno tuned
2.7" pulley 10lbs of boost!!

dyno run,these was the last two pulls with the 2.7 and the alternator was bad.turn your volume down!!


and a 3.25 pull and think my rev is still set to 5000 in this one

 

[rocket 5979]

yea it has to be just about that long.i cant get thick walled 3" alum and steel is out the question,all my flanges are alum.i think it will be fine as its not supporting any weight.and its not that long,long leg is only about 10" but again it will not be supporting any weight

Brother I have been building custom supercharger and turbo systems for almost a decade. I have been MIG and TIG welding, doing metal fabrication, and machining for almost as long as that. And also have been involved in one form or another of engineering for 13+ years. I know what I am talking about here and only trying to steer your project into the direction of success. It is not a question of "if" but rather of "when" you will have issues if you use that thin walled stuff with an "arm" that long. Why try to rig some sort of fanagled support bracket up when you can use thicker stuff, like the examples linked below, to do it durably and know you won't have issues? Whether you realize it or not you are making a structural member in that upper intake plenum. Regular intercooler tubing just isn't rated for or able to do the things you are asking it to do.

Ask and ye shall receive. www.globaltecheng.com This is the place where I buy all my "odd" size and extra heavy walled alum and s.s. tubing and pipe. Below are just a few links to some of your options.

http://www.globaltecheng.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1367&idcategory=64

This one has a .216" wall thickness and is 3" inner diameter. I don't know what your outer diameter size constraints may be so the O.D. being 3.5" might be a little too large or just fine.

http://www.globaltecheng.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=686&idcategory=65

This tubing is 3" O.D. and has a .120" wall thickness which is still over 2x thicker than the tubing you already have so it will be much more beefy.

I don't know how familiar you are with tubing and pipe sizing so one item to note is that pipe is sized by its inner diameter whereas tubing is sized by its outer diameter. If you want a tighter centerline radius then you can filter by that too. Overall a very good place to order this stuff from.

 

[jd4242]

sweet.thanks alot.i searched and call all my shops where we get our stuff from and noone carried it that big.3.5 would be to big for the flanges,but that other pipe may work just fine.you think it will be strong enough,plus i still plan to use a brace?and dont think im not listening or taking your advice,i just couldnt get anything thicker and really think it would have be fine

 

[rocket 5979]

sweet.thanks alot.i searched and call all my shops where we get our stuff from and noone carried it that big.3.5 would be to big for the flanges,but that other pipe may work just fine.you think it will be strong enough,plus i still plan to use a brace?and dont think im not listening or taking your advice,i just couldnt get anything thicker and really think it would have be fine

Here is another one that may work then if 3.5" O.D is too large.

http://www.globaltecheng.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1319&idcategory=64

.203" wall thickness, 2.5" I.D. (63.5mm) and a 2.875 O.D. Using this one may depend on your TB size. If you are using a stock then the I.D. of this being 63.5mm should be fine, but if you are planning on running a much larger TB then it may hinder flow a bit. What size TB are you planning on going with?

I think the .120" wall thickness tubing would probably do you pretty well and should be pretty durable with the extra thickness. But if you can feasibly use the thicker .20" walled stuff then I suggest it. If you go to the main page of the site and look in the mandrel bent tubing section for either pipe or tube it has a pretty easy to navigate search filter that will filter what you are looking for by material, wall thickness, degrees of bend, centerline radii, and a few others.

 

[jd4242]

Here is another one that may work then if 3.5" O.D is too large.

http://www.globaltecheng.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1319&idcategory=64

.203" wall thickness, 2.5" I.D. (63.5mm) and a 2.875 O.D. Using this one may depend on your TB size. If you are using a stock then the I.D. of this being 63.5mm should be fine, but if you are planning on running a much larger TB then it may hinder flow a bit. What size TB are you planning on going with?

I think the .120" wall thickness tubing would probably do you pretty well and should be pretty durable with the extra thickness. But if you can feasibly use the thicker .20" walled stuff then I suggest it. If you go to the main page of the site and look in the mandrel bent tubing section for either pipe or tube it has a pretty easy to navigate search filter that will filter what you are looking for by material, wall thickness, degrees of bend, centerline radii, and a few others.

i ordered this pipe
http://www.globaltecheng.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=686&idcategory=65
the clr is much larger than my old one but will still work.yea i went through everyone of there pipes and they dont list a clr any smaller without going to a thinner wall.if my math is right the ID should be about 73mm witch is smaller but not by much.im using a mustang 5.0 Tb true 75mm,thats at the butterfly.the pipe was $17 and they said the shipping quote was $16
im calling the shop monday and telling them not to cut that other pipe i dropped off

 

[jd4242]

o and my flanges are 75mm and cant go much larger,going to have them milled out for the od of the pipe(1mm)this thicker pipe will make welding alot easier too.thanks again for all your help and suggestions

 

[Dono]

What are you doing about your PCV valve? I just started thinking the bost might cause an issue. Or, with the check valve on the PCV valve, its not an issue as under boost the valve is just forced closed?

Just stick 2 breathers on the valve covers?

 

[jd4242]

It still has vac before the charger.only boost is on the output of the sc.the driver side im running to the pass side to the filler neck,its going to have a tee the one hose will run into the intake tube behind the maf.there is two nipples on top the charger for the brake booster hose and one for the fpr

 

[Dono]

I was just thinking the oil vapor might not be great for the SC.

 

[jd4242]

Little aint bad and thats why im running both all the way back to the intake tube.most oil will stick to the inside the tube and tb before it gets to the charger.

 

[jd4242]

well my sohc pan is ready to go in,man if you could see it in the sunlight,just like skittles,taste the rainbow!!hahah

 

[wood1]

So nice... makes me want to paint stuff.

 

[rocket 5979]

What are you doing about your PCV valve? I just started thinking the bost might cause an issue. Or, with the check valve on the PCV valve, its not an issue as under boost the valve is just forced closed?

Just stick 2 breathers on the valve covers?

The PCV will plug in pre-blower/pre-TB but post-MAFS on an Eaton supercharger setup like JD's. This will allow the PCV to not experience any boost and still vent properly. The only time you need to run a PCV check valve is when you are running a turbocharger or centrifugal supercharger because of where the location of the compressor is in relation to the TB and your "area of vacuum".

Another option is to vent PCV to atmosphere. This will cause the engine to run a little more rich than normal so you would have to retune the AFR's if the vehicle was already tuned.

 

[rocket 5979]

I was just thinking the oil vapor might not be great for the SC.

It won't really hurt anything. But if you don't want any oil vapor then you can do a simple oil/water separator catch can inline. It will allow the crankcase to ventilate while separating out any oil/water particles before it gets back to the intake.

 

[jd4242]

It won't really hurt anything. But if you don't want any oil vapor then you can do a simple oil/water separator catch can inline. It will allow the crankcase to ventilate while separating out any oil/water particles before it gets back to the intake.

I have onei swear some still gets by,i had a slight oil residue in my ifab i just took off

 

[rocket 5979]

I have one

Sounds good.

 

[Brandon96]

Before you even post the pictures you're about to post... Here's my reaction;

p.s. How did you get your oil pan/bottom end off without removing the block? I guess you didn't have to fight all the IFS BS I did?

 

[jd4242]

well alittle more progress today but some bad news also.its way tighter against the firewall than i thought,output is about 2.5"ish from the wall.so im going to either have to notch where the pipe goes or take a bfh to it and see if it fits.i dont have the pipe so cant really tell where and how much.also got the crank underdrive pulley off and man its way smaller than i thought.also yea i know i should have washed the engine first,its tomorrows plans before i pull the headers and valve covers.going to repaint them and touch up the block

stock CP and UDP

UDP ontop of stock

 

[jd4242]

Before you even post the pictures you're about to post... Here's my reaction;

p.s. How did you get your oil pan/bottom end off without removing the block? I guess you didn't have to fight all the IFS BS I did?

hahah you most have seen my fb!! i havent put the pan on yet,thats this sat.nope dont have all that crap plus plan on lifting the motor up a couple inches for room.

 

[Brandon96]

hahah you most have seen my fb!! i havent put the pan on yet,thats this sat.nope dont have all that crap plus plan on lifting the motor up a couple inches for room.

Ahh okay.. you sneaky sneaky fool you...

 

[jd4242]

you can see where the red is outlined its all most the shape of the charger so i gained clearance there but where the blue is i need more about an inch or two.that is where the intake manifold tube goes.if i didnt have a 3" body lift there would have been a HELL of alot of trimming to fit!!