Bkennedy's SAS and Rebuild Thread

[gmanpaint]

Congrats on getting the Atlas. I'm looking forward to the shifter cable install. Please get some good pics for us.

I don't really like the shifter rods I have on mine, and am hoping the cable version works better. The angle of the shifters from the placement coming thru the tunnel, to have them to the side of the console makes them too tight, hard to adjust, and bind up if placement is off a hair. Thinking the cables are more forgiving in shifter placement, and won't bind at all no matter where you put them. That's my hope at least.


After 500 mile break in period, and the fluid change, you will only have 2 extra quarts. lol

 

[BKennedy]

I finally got around to pulling the skid plates to have a real look at the driveline. The Atlas is about 3" shorter overall, I think due to the NP231 having a slip-yoke eliminator and clocking ring. Its about 2" taller at the center, tapering off to the same height as the NP231. Best of all, its almost exactly the same width, which means it should fit at the same angle.

Big issue I can see is the shifters: Where the current shifter is mounted, it looks like it will be directly above, and off center towards the driver side, of the shifter output on the Atlas. I think that means the universal cable shifter I bought might not work unless I mount the shifters backwards, which I am trying to avoid. Might be able to run the cables in a loop from the transfer case to the shifter mounts. When I get the Atlas test fitted, I will have to see what I have to work with. Might be better to have solid mount shifters instead of the cables.

I will get into the tear down tomorrow. Its hot and humid here today, and I hurt my back somehow last week so I need to take it easy.

 

[BKennedy]

GM, I guess we were posting about the same thing at the same time. The more I think about it, the more I think I can run the cables in a loop.

The plan is to test fit the Atlas, then pull the center console, driver seat and carpet to figure out the install of the shifter mount. By then, the new hub should arrive and I can get the Explorer back on the ground. I am planning on this install taking at least two weeks.

 

[gmanpaint]

I am imagining in my head placing the cable shifters inside the full length center console, so they are centered on the trans tunnel. Placed where a manual trans shifter would be, but the console would raise them higher off the floor.

I would have to rebuild my console for that, and relocate a ton of stuff in mine, but it sure would be nice to have them there out of the way, and in easy reach. Pretty sure that's how they place them cable shifters in the Jeep consoles. Might be the reason for the length on them. That's a lot of work tho. Maybe, one day if I'm bored and just want a new project to do. lol

I'm sure you will figure out the best way, and I can learn from your install.

 

[BKennedy]

The cables are entirely under the vehicle with this setup. The shifter mount goes through the floor. The shifters go through the floor where they meet up with the cables. Its a very well thought out, strong, and complicated kit.

The oval black plate with the square hole in it is the mounting plate.

Link to my universal shifter kit from AA
303009 : CABLE SHIFTER FOR AN ATLAS | Advance Adapters
​

My center console is full of stuff already. The Atlas shifters should go in the same place as the NP231 cable shifter, but the base plate will take up about twice the width of the current shifter mount. Everything but the boot will be under the carpet so I might be able to tuck the edge under my console. really no clue until I get it all mocked up.

 

[BKennedy]

My goal for the day was to get the old transfer case removed...FAIL. I removed the driveshafts, all the linkages, speedo cable, then jacked up the transmission slightly and removed the transmission mount bushing to give me some more room (it drops the transfer case over 2") to get to the top nuts. I spent about 2 hours trying to wiggle and pry it loose. Its getting loose, but just won't pop loose, and I was cranking on it hard enough to lift the transmission off the mount. I decided to give up for the day, leaving two nuts on it in case it decides to fall off. That's what I get for using The Right Stuff sealant last time I installed the case. I might have to pull the transmission cross member so I can drop it down a little more to get more straight leverage. I don't remember it being that difficult to remove last time, but its been over five years.

Ordered a new transmission mount and new bushings for my torque arm since its out. Don't want to put old parts back.

 

[410Fortune]

Oh boy. I have had two t cases fight me to come free, both of them were silicolne'd in place
One of them we fought so bad I even hooked up a chain and tried to pull it off with the tractor....still did not budge. Only resulted in lifting the front tires of the tractor way off the ground.
The eventual fix was to jack the truck up even higher and use a longer pry bar in order to get the correct angle and leverage the truck had to go up another 6" in the air....then we were able to break the glue seal and drop the t case...

I always use a $3 gasket now...
Seriously I have dropped 100 of these things, those 2 t cases stick with me, one of them took us like 3 days to get it off!!! Get that truck high up in the air so you have room to work the pry bar
Smart to take a break, I find that I can fight fight fight to stab a trans (or on this case drop a t case) and if I just take a break, clean up shop, and start fresh in the am it usually lines right up and all that fighting was for not

Installed a twin sticked NP205 into 84 Ranger using a trick billet cable shifter
the cables go through the floor then stay up tight against the floor boards as they make their loop, this was the best way to get a good approach angle at the t case levers...
Loops are your friend.

 

[BKennedy]

OK, I have now seen a more complicated cable shifter than the one sitting in a bag in my garage. The kit I have looks similar to the shifters you installed, but the box where the shifters and cables attach is under the vehicle, so I don't have to worry about routing cables through the floor. I just have to cut a square hole through the floor instead.

I never heard of using a gasket for the transmission to transfer case, I thought it had to be sealed??

 

[Rick]

Couple ideas. Loctite stud and bearing mount should do the trick.

Another option is hitting the surface that the bearing race is pressed onto with a center punch in a bunch of places. That will displace some metal causing the race to grip tighter.

 

[Rick]

Here are photos of their shift rod setup. Sure seems easier.

 

[Rick]

..

 

[BKennedy]

I already ordered a new hub because it seems like every other fix it temporary. I thought about annealing the surface, but that's uneven and could cause the bearing to be slightly off-center, wearing it out prematurely. I thought about green locktite, but gluing the race in there seems like it would be difficult to get out if necessary.

Your shifter looks like ends up almost exactly where mine is. I will see if the cable system will work.

 

[BKennedy]

410 nailed it. I went out this morning, crawled under the Explorer. I got the pry bar between the adaptor and case and it started moving. I set down two pieces of 6x6 wood I had lying around so if I dropped the case it wouldn't land on the concrete floor. I started to wiggle it and it popped right off, so suddenly I guided it to the 6x6's and partially onto my chest. Should have a nice bruise, but that's the price of doing your own work.

The original AA adaptor has a spacer between the adaptor and transfer case. It makes the studs they sent with the Atlas way too short. Measuring the inputs on both cases, I will need to reuse the spacer.

I cleaned up the adaptors and while looking everything over, the input shafts looked slightly different. Atlas input splines looked coarser so I started counting. 23 spline input as ordered. Counted the input on the NP231 and the transmission output, 27 spline. **** (I actually said it so loud my neighbor came over to see what was up). I emailed the vendor and he says its an easier fix than I was anticipating and offered to call AA for me. I decided to call them myself, but course AA is closed for the weekend so I will be calling on Monday. I am going to pull the shifter, center console driver seat and carpet instead.

Atlas Input with the spacer set in place

NP231 input

Adaptor to transmission with spacer installed

Spacer removed

Spacer

 

[BKennedy]

I pulled the front half of the interior out so I could see what's what. I am thinking of ordering the Explorer shifter kit while I am on the phone with AA Monday, as long as I can return it, or the cable shifter kit. It will give me more to work with when I get the transfer case installed.

Here is what I am working with: The arrow on the trans hump is where the old shifter was located. Its right in front of where my seat sits when I am driving. The old shifter is next to the Atlas shifter on the floor. It looks like I will have to move the Atlas shifter out more to clear the console, but then it will probably interfere with my leg as I am driving. The twin sticks will end up a little above the console, which is about perfect.

Of course, none of this matters because I can't mock up the transfer case to see where everything will line up. Not cutting any holes in the floor until I get the transfer case fitted in place.

 

[gmanpaint]

Plan on letting this A2 swap take as long as it takes. Don't set a timeline to do it, as there is all kinds of things that can slow you down. A few examples.....

On my set up, the right shifter comes thru the tunnel right about at the end of your arrows vertical line is. That is as far to the center as it can go. To get it any further to center, the case itself would have to be clocked up higher. That's not happening.

I had a brand new set of Corbeau seats installed. Took them out after 1 run, as the seat itself put the left shifter right into the back of my leg. Stock seats was put back in, as they can be manipulated to keep my leg off that shifter. It was either that, or cut the shifter rod shorter, and thread the end for the handle. Pass.

That's a bummer about the spline count. I went from a 4.0- 25 to a 5.0- 31 in mine. The conversion kit is not cheap! Also had to shorten the trans output shaft, to get the case to seat flush to the tail housing.

Changing over to thick wall drivelines wasn't real hard, but was costly, and took some time. I had them both custom built to my wants, and paid for it. lol

I used a scissor type trans jack to install/remove the case. The main shifter rail has to be on it, before you bolt it in. That makes it interesting to maneuver up in there. The trans jack helps to move it as needed while lifting it into place, and getting the splines mated. Once bolted in, then you have to fight to get the shifter rails installed with the clips. Have a clean work area, and an extra set of eyes to watch them clips as they shoot off into the abyss, when installing.

Point is, just go with the flow on this mod. Wooooooosaaaa.......

 

[BKennedy]

The cable shifter I have been using for the NP231 rubs on my leg. My knee actually goes over it when its in 4-Hi. These shifters are quite a bit longer and a little wider. I might end up cutting the shifter shafts down a little. Will have to see when the transfer case gets mocked in where everything will line up.

Called AA this morning. They are very cool. They explained are three different ways to mate a 700R4 4wd transmission to a NP231 transfer case. All use an adaptor plate. 1.Change the output shaft on the transmission to their custom 23 spline unit. Issue with that is if there is a problem and it needs to be replaced, have to order a new custom output shaft. 2.Use a coupler and a 2.5" spacer after the adaptor. 3.Use a 1" spacer after the adaptor, and change the input shaft on the transfer case to 27 spline GM. When all this was done, they opted to go with #3. I thought they went with #1, because I remembered having AA send the parts to the transmission builder. AA likes option #3 the best because everything can be repaired with off the shelf parts.

New input shaft is shipping out today. Said I should have no problem changing them out myself, and to call and they would walk me though it. If I don't want to mess with it, they advised me to take it to the same place that built my front axle (MIT) and they should be able to do it in about 30 minutes. I can return the 23 spline shaft so the cost to me should be less than $75. AA also said I should just reuse the longer studs off the NP231.

I asked if there was a way to stretch the driveline, since the 700R4 is about 5" shorter than the OEM transmission. It would be nice to get the Atlas behind the transmission hump where the floor is higher and widens out. He said, sure just get a Atlas 4. I replied that I would have, but AA says they cannot be flat towed and that's how I tow the Explorer.

 

[Rick]

So they just assumed that the tranny already had their output shaft in it?

 

[BKennedy]

So they just assumed that the tranny already had their output shaft in it?

No, I assumed. I remember when I purchased the adaptor from AA it came with a different trans output shaft. I had AA send it to Bowtie Overdrives before they built my transmission. Its been a long time since I had that transmission/transfer case installed. I think it was between 2002-2005, so my memory is a little muddy about what happened. It was me who thought I had a Jeep 23 spline NP231. Turns out, I have a Jeep NP231 that had the input swapped out to 27 spline GM input. I was going to sell it, but now am not sure who would purchase it, since it won't bolt to anything but a GM transmission with an adaptor. It does have a AA slip yoke eliminator and the TeraFlex 2low conversion, so it would be worth something in parts. The slip yoke eliminator and 2low conversion are over $500 in parts.

 

[Rick]

Got it. I have the same brain fog when it comes to certain details of the build. At the time you are building it it's easy to remember the minutia, but not years later.

 

[BKennedy]

I received the new hub today. Does anybody use the races that always seem to come installed in new hubs? I have always knocked them out and used the races that come with the bearings.