1997 5R55E Reoccurring P0761 Fault

[97Sandbox]

I had another thought today:

When I was installing the shift kit, I had a heck of a time getting the forward modulator valve (or maybe it was the forward engagement control valve, I can't quite remember) out. I got it eventually, and swapped out the spring per the Superior instructions.

What I'm thinking though, is if any given valve is bent or forms a burr on one of its outer diameter edges, it will likely hang up in its bore and not actuate fully. Could it be that the 3-4 shift valve in front of SS3 is damaged and is hanging up in the VB and causing my P0761 code?

I'm just speculating here, but intuitively, it seems reasonable that the shock of my "double down shift" could have damaged a valve. Is there a specific valve in the 5R55E that's prone to this kind of malfunction? Better yet, one that would have something to do with SS3 not engaging!

I have a bunch of spare valves that I pulled out of the VB I took the blow off valve and updated separator plate from. When I get my VB out, I may try to pull every valve I possibly can and swap any valves that look suspicious.

Let me know if this is a good plan or if wishful thinking is getting to me again!

 

[JK080]

When back in the valve body inspect every retaining pin location and all valves and especially the coast clutch valve. This valve can cause the loss of 2nd and 5th.

Check out Sonnax's coast clutch valve information, also look over the whole 5r55e page for even more info on this valve body.

Oversized Coast Clutch Valve Kit - 37947-33K

The coast clutch valve functions differently in 4R44E/55E units and 5R44E/55 units. The valve is the same but the porting used in their different separator p

www.sonnax.com

Also dont forget to air check the OD servo after the valve body is removed and compare to the intermediate band operation.

 

[kidrock72]

I have been adjusting the stud towards the front of the vehicle, which I understand to be for the OD band.


This is the first I'm hearing of a different spec. The Superior instructions did not make mention of an adjustment even in the section about the intermediate servo spring replacement...


All of my issues seem to be related to the gears that use the OD band -- is there a way the intermediate band could cause the shift solenoid c code?


Are you saying to loosen it before backing off the two turns?


I have been backing the OD stud off 2 turns from 120 in-lb.


Even if the gaskets have only been in the trans for a couple of weeks and less than 20 miles? I was surprised how nice the ones with 50k miles looked when I swapped them out.

yes loosen lock nut and then turn the stud to the specs it calls for intermediate band 2 1/2 , turns and O/D band back 2 turns. This is stock specs... if the superior kit doesn't say to adjust the bands, then dont. I used a TransGo shift correction kit and it requires band adjustment. Personally I can control my shifting by simply adjusting the bands, Just my preference and experience.

 

[97Sandbox]

When back in the valve body inspect every retaining pin location and all valves and especially the coast clutch valve. This valve can cause the loss of 2nd and 5th.

I sure will. This time around, I plan to work more slowly and take everything apart that I can. I'm glad I have the extra parts to compare to and swap with if necessary.

Check out Sonnax's coast clutch valve information, also look over the whole 5r55e page for even more info on this valve body.

I have read some of their resources before and I'm always impressed with the quality -- I'll be sure to read more and try their tests.

Also dont forget to air check the OD servo after the valve body is removed and compare to the intermediate band operation.

Will do! I can't totally visualize how to do this, so I may be asking more questions once I'm in the case with an air hose this weekend.

Personally I can control my shifting by simply adjusting the bands, Just my preference and experience.

I'm jealous! So far I can't seem to control the shifting by doing anything...

 

[kidrock72]

I sure will. This time around, I plan to work more slowly and take everything apart that I can. I'm glad I have the extra parts to compare to and swap with if necessary.


I have read some of their resources before and I'm always impressed with the quality -- I'll be sure to read more and try their tests.


Will do! I can't totally visualize how to do this, so I may be asking more questions once I'm in the case with an air hose this weekend.


I'm jealous! So far I can't seem to control the shifting by doing anything...

 

[kidrock72]

View attachment 324159​

does the lock nut come loose for you?

 

[97Sandbox]

does the lock nut come loose for you?

I have gotten the luck nut for the OD stud loose and adjusted the stud to 120 in-lb and backed off two turns. I haven't tried the intermediate stud's lock nut because it's harder to get to and I haven't been suspicious of any problems being related to the intermediate band. Manual 2nd aka 3rd gear still works fine as of now.

 

[CDW6212R]

Interesting. I don't know what other thing to suggest there, it sounds like you have done most of what should be done.

I like all of the Sonnax parts they have made for the Explorer transmissions. If you have to drop the VB again, I'd be sure to have all of what is available in it, or have it new and ready to put in. I liked the TransGo band adjustments better than the OEM method, it helped to firm the shifts(their method makes the bands a hair tighter, they engage quicker that way).

Can you reach the OD band anchors in the 5R55E, being the servo is in the side? It's a normal method for other trans, to run a thin screw driver up from the bottom(through servo piston shaft hole) to engage the band to confirm it's intact and will tighten up fully.

Check that "L" pin as mentioned before, those are easy to place in the wrong spot, following clear diagrams is super important.

 

[97Sandbox]

I like all of the Sonnax parts they have made for the Explorer transmissions. If you have to drop the VB again, I'd be sure to have all of what is available in it, or have it new and ready to put in.

Are you referring to just buying one of the reman VBs from Sonnax? At this point I do kind of wish I had done that, but I'm also hoping there's a way I can get my VB working right again with the Ford TSB and Superior kit.

I liked the TransGo band adjustments better than the OEM method, it helped to firm the shifts(their method makes the bands a hair tighter, they engage quicker that way).

Could you describe or share the TransGo method? I think I've read about it on here somewhere, but it this point all the 5R55 threads are starting to blend together in my mind.

Can you reach the OD band anchors in the 5R55E, being the servo is in the side? It's a normal method for other trans, to run a thin screw driver up from the bottom(through servo piston shaft hole) to engage the band to confirm it's intact and will tighten up fully.

Are you saying to try this from underneath with the VB removed, or through the passenger's side with the servos pulled out?

Check that "L" pin as mentioned before, those are easy to place in the wrong spot, following clear diagrams is super important.

Oh believe me I will be meticulous this time, the last thing I want to do is pull the VB a third time!

 

[kidrock72]

I have been down this road recently , pulled the valve body out 4 times, I just replaced the valve body refurbished updated version. and I took it out for a drive. it runs absolutely amazing with overdrive off, and about 5min into driving with overdrive on, the Overdrive light started flashing again. I then pulled over shut off my truck, waited 10sec started it and took overdrive off and it continued to drive like nothing was wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance

 

[97Sandbox]

I have been down this road recently , pulled the valve body out 4 times, I just replaced the valve body refurbished updated version. and I took it out for a drive. it runs absolutely amazing with overdrive off, and about 5min into driving with overdrive on, the Overdrive light started flashing again. I then pulled over shut off my truck, waited 10sec started it and took overdrive off and it continued to drive like nothing was wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance

That sounds similar to when I wore out my OD band (5 years and 50k miles ago). My symptoms were:
- Drives fine around town
- Drives fine on highway until trans gets warmed up, then flashing OD light and won't go into 5th
- OD light turns off after truck is shut off and trans cools down, but comes back on when trans heats up and back driving on highway
My thought is that the band was worn to the point where it could still just barely grab when it was cool and contracted, but once the trans heated up and everything expanded, it couldn't lock up any more and the trans would protect itself from slipping by kicking me out of 5th.

Unfortunately, that was before I started working on my own cars and I had to have the whole trans rebuilt for the band to be replaced -- $2200 in 2015 money.

No way of saying for sure what your issue is, but your symptoms sure sound like what I had. Of course, I had not been in the VB when I was having those symptoms, so it's probably something totally different.

 

[kidrock72]

I will adjust the O/D band tomorrow and see if maybe it needs adjusting do ro the updated valve body. thanks for the information

 

[CDW6212R]

I prefer to keep the original VB if possible, if it was working fine before, try to use that. I agree it sounds like the trans is keeping it out of 5th, and 2nd, to save itself or the band.

I meant try to put a thin tool through the side where the OD servo goes, and see if you can feel the band(the anchor(end of the band)). It should have a feel of resistance if it's there, as the force wraps the band around its drum. In some transmissions a band may be able to get moved out of place, out of line with the servo piston. So when you install a servo piston, you want to feel that engagement before putting the servo/spring/cover in.

I'm sorry, I don't have the TransGo band adjustment procedure handy, those instructions are tough to find in my house. Maybe one of those 5R55E threads might have them described.

 

[kidrock72]

I prefer to keep the original VB if possible, if it was working fine before, try to use that. I agree it sounds like the trans is keeping it out of 5th, and 2nd, to save itself or the band.

I meant try to put a thin tool through the side where the OD servo goes, and see if you can feel the band(the anchor(end of the band)). It should have a feel of resistance if it's there, as the force wraps the band around its drum. In some transmissions a band may be able to get moved out of place, out of line with the servo piston. So when you install a servo piston, you want to feel that engagement before putting the servo/spring/cover in.

I'm sorry, I don't have the TransGo band adjustment procedure handy, those instructions are tough to find in my house. Maybe one of those 5R55E threads might have them described.

thank you alot the 8nfo helps me

 

[97Sandbox]

I prefer to keep the original VB if possible, if it was working fine before, try to use that. I agree it sounds like the trans is keeping it out of 5th, and 2nd, to save itself or the band.

My thought was also to try to keep the original VB as it worked well before the whole "double downshift" on the interstate thing. Of course, I originally thought all I had was a bad solenoid haha!

I meant try to put a thin tool through the side where the OD servo goes, and see if you can feel the band(the anchor(end of the band)). It should have a feel of resistance if it's there, as the force wraps the band around its drum. In some transmissions a band may be able to get moved out of place, out of line with the servo piston. So when you install a servo piston, you want to feel that engagement before putting the servo/spring/cover in.

While I'm not sure if I could have done this check with a screwdriver (I think the right cat is in the way), I can confirm there was resistance upon installing the new OD piston.

When I was having trouble getting the OD servo cover out, I torqued the OD band adjuster in a few turns which helped push out the cap and piston. A week later, when I went to install the new piston, I was able to slide the piston into place smoothly, but I couldn't get the cap in far enough to insert the snap ring. After 20 minutes of pushing and turning and banging knuckles and swearing a bunch, I realized the band adjuster was still a few turns inward! I simultaneously backed out the stud and pushed in on the cap and everything went together like it was meant to.

I'm thinking that if the band/anchor had shifted out of place, I would have either inserted the piston without issue (missed the anchor entirely), or not gotten it in at all (run into part of the out-of-place anchor). Does that sound right?

I'm sorry, I don't have the TransGo band adjustment procedure handy, those instructions are tough to find in my house. Maybe one of those 5R55E threads might have them described.

No worries! I know I've read them on here somewhere.

If checking my servos and diving back into the VB don't turn up with anything groundbreaking, I'll look around for the TransGo instructions and try out the alternate band adjustment procedure.

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes that right, if the servo has some resistance as it gets all the way in, the band is there and in place. Not knowing what it should feel like, it's easy for anyone new to working on those, to put a servo in and not notice how easy it went in(with no resistance). I think that was kind of common for C4's, and the AOD.

If you still find nothing obvious when you get it apart again, I'd suspect an internal VB part. As said, if a small valve isn't moving smoothly or at all, from a burr etc, that will cause an issue.

That's what cleanliness inside of an automatic is about, any tiny debris will screw up functioning quickly. Fine wear of the frictions doesn't usually create problems, but never changing the ATF due to the stupid myth(it's bad to change trans fluid), that accumulates a lot of debris. That fouls the VB and eventually ruins it.

 

[97Sandbox]

Back in the 5R today! Here are the band adjustment studs from the inside:

Intermediate

Overdrive

I air checked the intermediate servo through the vent hole in the pan rail and I could hear the piston move and fluid gurgled out...that's good right? I tried to do this for the OD servo too and nothing happened, but I think I just didn't get a good seal with the cat in the way. I'll try through the apply hole once I get the VB off. What exactly should I be looking for when air testing the servos?

 

[97Sandbox]

More pics with the VB out:

Intermediate

OD

Here's looking up towards the OD servo (tough to get a shot with the cat in the way)

And for anyone who needs to air check an OD servo and doesn't want to mess with a very rusty exhaust, I was able to do it by shoving hose into the apply and release inlets and running air into the loose ends.

For those following my troubleshooting process, I believe my Intermediate and OD servos are both actuating properly with compressed air (50-55 psi).

Next up, tearing into the VB!

 

[97Sandbox]

I'm gradually pulling apart all of the different valves in the VB and I'm having the most issues pulling the valves out of the SS4 and SS2 bores (middle and right bores in the picture below, respectively).

The Superior instructions hint that the SS4 valve "may be very hard to remove" and they're not kidding! Anyone have tips for removing those valves? I've tried so many different picks, small screwdrivers, and access points and I'm running out of ideas.

If I can't get those valves out, is it time for a new VB, or is there any chance that the VB will still work properly?

Thanks!

 

[CDW6212R]

Do you have a manual that pictures and describes the internals? I prefer the small light blue cover manuals, NTSB or similar lettered name brand. Those used to run about $15, and they have the most important pictures and descriptions of the VB etc. A manual is very helpful to see which parts you are working on.