1999 Mounty 5.0 aka My Great Bad Idea

[97Sandbox]

Interesting! My rear speakers definitely did not work till I looped the wires.

 

[CDW6212R]

I have no console and I did not loop
Anything? Speakers work… first I’ve heard of this!!

In the models(99-01) with the better stereos, the long console has audio controls on the rear of it. Those are the only ones that could have the speaker wires go into the console connector, and they also come out of it(in series so if you disconnect the console, the speakers don't get the signal). That might have also been a 98 model year change, my 98's don't have that problem. I never thought of how those could be OEM wired differently.

 

[97Sandbox]

That adds up. The Mounty is a MY99, although technically a late 98 build and it had the Mach stereo. The screen on the Mach HU was dead when I bought the truck though, so I've since swapped in a mid-trim HU.

 

[CDW6212R]

I used some later model HU for my last 98, one with a 6-disc changer built in. It's nice but the subwoofer output is wrong for the Mach wiring(it booms the woofer for most songs at higher volume). The Mach has separate woofer output plus no lows going to the speakers. I figure it's a mismatch, but it works fine for my work truck. The prior owner had also swapped some unknown Ford HU in, and it died two years back. I prefer the Mach, I have one that works and I had it rebuilt, plus he added RCA output jacks to it.

 

[97Sandbox]

Funny we've wandered onto this topic, I just today got around to pulling the blown out sub (from previous owner) in the Mounty, only to find the new sub isn't getting any signal. Must be the Mach mismatch you mentioned.

It's probably easier to just run an aftermarket amp than find a working Mach head unit. I'll probably just abandon the factory setup.

 

[CDW6212R]

Those with the sub back there just have a simple wiring harness which plugs into the dash wiring in the right kick panel area. I messed with that some in my 99 without deciding really how to do that stereo. I left the harness etc, but didn't install one. The Mach was the only odd system then, all others used normal full range speaker signals. So use a great HU, and wire it like it normally should be.

 

[97Sandbox]

Going on another tangent: has anyone ever determined whether the lower radiator shroud/drip tray provides a significant cooling benefit? I was going to make a simple steel condenser/radiator guard, but it would go in place of that plastic piece. However, the Mounty will probably end up spending more time towing than off roading, so I'm wondering if I should forget about a radiator guard and put the shroud back on.

 

[allmyEXes]

@97Sandbox So Grant, in the wiring diagram in post #879, there are 3 switches in the switch for the clutch pedal, that would be the 6 pins on the switch and the start/neutral safety switch is open until you press the clutch pedal? Is the switch within the switch to disengage cruise closed to send a signal to the cruise to module to disengage cruise control?

 

[410Fortune]

None of my vehicles have the plastic water trap shroud thingy anymore… they are just in the way. I have no issues with cooling

My old 96 when I wired up the stereo I had to bypass all the factory wires pretty much… I installed a 5 channel amp and small sub. I was able to use all the factory speaker wires running into the doors but I had to get access to them by removing the entire cargo area panel and factory amp and sub amp. So it makes sense that they changed things in 98. Never had to do that on the “newer” rigs

 

[97Sandbox]

@97Sandbox So Grant, in the wiring diagram in post #879, there are 3 switches in the switch for the clutch pedal, that would be the 6 pins on the switch and the start/neutral safety switch is open until you press the clutch pedal? Is the switch within the switch to disengage cruise closed to send a signal to the cruise to module to disengage cruise control?

NSS is now just a loop of wire at the trans harness connector. The starting wire (under dash) is split through the CPP pins 5 and 6, a normally open switch. That's how the starter is disabled until clutch pedal is depressed.

According to the Speed Control wiring diagram, only pins 3 and 4 have anything to do with the cruise servo. That's a normally closed switch that lets the BPP signal pass through unless the clutch is depressed (which still doesn't make sense to me). I believe that means the cruise portion of the CPP is actually opened when the pedal is depressed to disengage cruise.

I'm really not sure what the normally open switch with pins 1 and 2 is for, it's not really covered in my manual.

@410Fortune told me it had to do with enabling electronic 4x4 engagement -- which I don't have -- so those pins are abandoned right now.

My old 96 when I wired up the stereo I had to bypass all the factory wires pretty much… I installed a 5 channel amp and small sub. I was able to use all the factory speaker wires running into the doors but I had to get access to them by removing the entire cargo area panel and factory amp and sub amp. So it makes sense that they changed things in 98. Never had to do that on the “newer” rigs

Are you saying you never ran into the sub/HU compatibility issue in '98+ rigs?

 

[410Fortune]

Oh yes! To power the factory sub it needs 5v power supply not 12 and you need a bass
Blocker in the rca line signal to it

I am using the factory sub in the 03 with a atoto head unit and aftermarket door speakers. I learned about the 5v power supply and bass blocker on this forum and made it so

3 Position clutch switch
1. Starter
2. Cruise
3. Low range shift

 

[97Sandbox]

Oh yes! To power the factory sub it needs 5v power supply not 12 and you need a bass
Blocker in the rca line signal to it

I am using the factory sub in the 03 with a atoto head unit and aftermarket door speakers. I learned about the 5v power supply and bass blocker on this forum and made it so

5V? Wiring diagram says 6V haha. I haven't touched the wiring to the sub amp, but I'm no longer getting signal to the sub since I put in the base head unit to replace the dead Mach HU. Is there any quick fix to get the sub back up and running? I thought there were non-Mach systems that still had a factory sub.

And while we're deep diving the CPP, do you have any thoughts on my workaround to use the 1/2 CPP pins to make the CPP mimic the BPP by sending 12V to the CC servo with pedal pressed? Seems like an okay idea to me, but I'm just spitballing now lol

 

[410Fortune]

Found it

Post 400 in my $700 sport trac thread shows the head unit install and factory sub wiring info

View attachment 445197
Atoto f7 we $165 on amazon w rear camera
View attachment 445198
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View attachment 445201
With mounting brackets installed
View attachment 445202
Brackets modded to clear switches
View attachment 445203
Perfect fit

View attachment 445205
Glued the mic in place to cover the hole in column shroud, worked perfectly

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Mounted

The wiring is a little tricky, good to have the 03 sport trac wiring book (I have 01, 02, 03 and 05 books for traxs now)

Basically to get the factory sub to work there are 3 wires power to sub amp (remote turn on) which is a 5v feed or you will get a “thump” each time you turn the key on. So we use a 12v to 5v resistor inline. Also the atoto subwoofer rca out is full range so I used a low pass inline filter to block out all mid and high ranges, keep bass to 100hz. Have to cut an rca cable apart to get the + and - feeds. All in all it worked out easily without having to buy an install kit or wiring harness (I never do)

This is the 12v to 5v step down used for the remote wire to factory subwoofer amp

RED WOLF Car 12 Volt to 5 Volt Step Down Adapter Harness Fit Aftermarket Radio Stereo Install for Early Ford Mustang Lincoln https://a.co/d/hqj1r1P

Here is the inline bass
Filter
FMOD Crossover Pair 100 Hz Low Pass https://a.co/d/dzilhN0

03 fliptrac $700 daily driver (summer of fun with 4 sport tracs)

5 cupholders front Two back! Radio sucks I hate all the commercials I am Bluetooth all day with Spotify Wife ordered me atoto w rear camera! $165 on amazon woooohooo I’m saving my money for new lifters and maybe some aluminum heads ;) can use 6 disc as small partial trade

www.explorerforum.com

 

[97Sandbox]

After some careful multimetering, I've determined two things:

1. I'm getting power but no signal to the sub amp. I'm guessing it is an issue with the lower trim HU not supporting a sub output. I'm just going to delete the factory sub box and amp for the time being. If I really wanted bass, the factory setup wouldn't cut it anyway.
2. The CPP in my Sport is working the same as how the Mounty's is: 0V with no pedals pressed, 12V with brake only pressed, and back to 0V when clutch is pressed. I'm not really sure what else to try to get the CPP to kill cruise in the factory way, so I'll try my idea to have the CPP copy the BPP.

I also found two sources of the dust intrusion in the cargo area

Update: I tried to wire the CPP cruise portion in parallel to the BPP. All it did was blow the #9 fuse. So, BN switched to RD/LG (at BPP) to TN/LB (through CPP) is 12V to CC servo, but BN switched directly to TN/LB (essentially having CPP bypass/parallel to the BPP) is 12V presumably straight to ground. I'm really scratching my head now...

 

[Josh P]

Any empty spots in the power distribution for the cruise? Automatic may not use a spot the manual does.

 

[97Sandbox]

I realized after the fact that since the BPP RD/LG is spliced to the TN/LB from the CPP and the BPP is normally grounded -- rather than normally open -- the hot 12V went through the CCP to the CC servo, but also back to the BPP where it shorted to ground. Should've thought of that before.

The only difference I've found between my auto Mounty and my manual Ex Sport (aside from not having a CPP harness in the first place) is the Mounty had the TN/LB wire looped from where it goes to the CC servo to a splice with the RD/GN wire from the BPP. With the loop cut and the splice side abandoned, the TN/LB wire in the Mounty (at the now installed CPP) only gets 12V with brake pressed and clutch not pressed, then drops to 0V when clutch is depressed. This is just like how everything works in the Sport except for some reason cruise doesn't cancel with clutch pressed in the Mounty. I haven't found anything missing in the Mounty's circuits per se, just the extra loop/splice that I cut.

 

[CDW6212R]

That's what I meant when I said a relay may be the easiest fix. The relay will isolate the two circuits, and you use the existing circuit to trigger the new relay. That just takes tapping from the circuit it has, to trigger the relay, which can be either a ground or power source to trigger it. Then you use the needed other relay circuit, to provide the needed power or ground. Planning that in your head is the only tricky part, then the four wires are not that hard to install with the relay.

I added two relays in my old 95 Crown Vic, to replace the existing trans shift wires, which are just two wires to control the four gears. When the overhead switch was triggered in that car, the 3rd and 4th gears were disabled, which I wanted to deliver mail(low speeds, never need 3rd gear).

 

[97Sandbox]

I like the idea of a relay, but I need to get to the bottom of what's actually not working. Checking circuits at the CPP in each vehicle, the Mounty and my Sport are doing all the same things. My next area to start probing will be at the CC servo.

No pedals pressed, the TN/LB wire at the servo should be grounded as the CPP is normally closed to the RD/LG wire and the RD/LG wire is normally grounded at the BPP. With brake pressed, BPP should switch from ground to 12V which will pass through the same circuit (RD/LG to CPP to TN/LB) to the CC servo. If brake and clutch are pressed, the CPP switch will open, but BPP should send 12V in parallel through a splice and to the CC servo. The part that still confuses me: if BPP is normally grounded (no pedals input) and you depress the clutch to open the CPP switch, does the TN/LB wire not just remain grounded? One of the two parallel paths dead ends at the open CPP and the other is grounded at the BPP which as far as the CC servo is concerned means nothing as it's still grounded.

The only way I see this working is if there is in fact no splice in a factory manual vehicle so CPP and BPP are in series. Then you have ground with no pedals pressed, 12V with brake pressed, and open with clutch and/or brake pressed. Maybe a dumb question: what's the best way to check whether a circuit is open vs. grounded?

 

[CDW6212R]

That sounds similar to the power window switches, which are double throw circuits, and only one side gets grounded while power is routed through the other(one of four wires). It took me a long while to grasp how those circuit worked. Then I figured out that I had to isolate all window wires, to trigger each separately with individual relays.

So Grant, chances are you have such a similar situation that two circuits are interacting differently based on the trans type. Keep thinking on it, you should be able to decipher it soon.

 

[97Sandbox]

We got the first good rain in a long time last night and I was reminded of an issue I noticed last spring. Whenever the Mounty is in heavy rain, water gets into the passenger kick panel area. It's not under the carpet, mostly where the wire harness runs.

Is there a drain path that could be clogged and cause this?